HOW BELIEF SYSTEMS DICTATE WHAT IS POSSIBLE AND WHEN

Tips on how to improve your belief systems by Debbie Lynn Grace

  • Belief systems dictate what people think is possible for themselves.
  • The number one thing you have to know is who's your audience and how do you talk to them
  • You're renting this body that you're walking around in and you have no idea when the lease it up. And if that's the case, then first and foremost, I'm always gonna advocate do what you love
  • Which is greater for you? Your mission to serve or your desire to be in fear?
  • What's the one small thing you can do that has the greatest impact?
  • If you are going to spend this time and energy building something, then do it in a way that you enjoy, makes you happy

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Doug:                    Well, welcome back to another episode of Real Marketing Real Fast. Today we've got a different approach and a different topic. I've got Debbie Lynn Grace joining me in the studio. We met at the New Media Summit in San Diego just a short while ago and we had a great chance to have a conversation there and hang out with some other peeps that are in the podcast business marketing space as well. If you look back at her background, what she's done in direct marketing, there are lots to offer and the conversation today is going to shift or look at where she was and where she's going, so I would suggest that you sit down, tune in, and listen close.

She says it's the obstacles and it's the challenges, the unexpected opportunities that will truly lead you to discover your higher calling. For Debbie, the road to her purpose felt like an unconventional route and a path that she had never envisioned for herself. Now when she stepped into her path, she said it makes perfect sense. Today she's a 30-year marketing expert. She's the author of a book called Outrageous Business Growth. She's a contributing author to five other business and personal development books, an international speaker, energy worker, and intuitive.

Over the last 30 years, Debbie's programs have impacted hundreds of thousands of people with her business and personal development programs. Today through her online programs and live events, she feels blessed to show highly sensitive people worldwide how to lead a life of purpose and prosperity. So I'd like to welcome you to the Real Marketing podcast today.

Debbie:                Thank you. I'm really excited to be here.

Doug:                    Well, we chatted a little bit off the air in terms of your background, so maybe you wanna fill in a little bit of your background of where you were and how you got started.

Debbie:                Yeah. Well, my background started out in the direct marketing industry, so we won't go how long ago … A long time ago. Remember the days when you actually opened up a mailbox and pulled out a piece of letter and it was in an envelope, right? Well, that's what I used to create and I had multimillion dollar clients, Citibank, Hewlett-Packard, Wells Fargo Bank, some Fortune 500 companies that you'd recognize, and I probably mailed over the course of my, it was probably a decade-long career, probably 20 million pieces of mail. And from there, so I was considered on the agency side, and then I went client side and I became Vice President of Marketing for a four and a half billion dollar financial institution, so I got a little bit more well versed in other areas of marketing besides direct marketing.

And from there, I realized … I had an epiphany one day and realized there was only one way I was gonna get from vice president to president and that is if I promoted myself, so I did. I quit my job and I started my own business and started out as … I actually started out as a marketing consultant and then the journey kinda led me into a lot of different places that I didn't anticipate.

Doug:                    Well, we talked about how you transitioned, so I felt that would be a great way to talk to our listeners today in terms of you were in the direct marketing business, and now you've transitioned to a different place. And I think, often, as entrepreneurs, we start with something, maybe it's a service or a product or something we're selling, and then we realize either the market shifted or we're not as interested and that we're kinda stuck with, “Okay, now what do I do?”

Debbie:                Yeah. I've come across that. I've really been working with entrepreneurs for so many years. When I started, obviously, my background was corporate marketing, so when I started my marketing consulting business, that's what I did. I knocked on the doors of financial institutions. And then not too long into it, honest to god, this is the truth, I woke up one day and I thought, “Why am I working with banks? I left the bank because I don't like bankers, and so what am I doing?”

Doug:                    That's funny.

Debbie:                So I used my background in direct marketing … Now, remember, this is before … I started my business in 1994. We weren't online. We didn't use the internet, so I used my background, I sent out a one-page letter to my list across the country, which included family and friends, less than a hundred people just announcing my business with a business card, and I landed my first $50,000 client doing that.

Doug:                    Wow, that's really cool.

Debbie:                And then I thought to myself, “Well, if I speak in front of different associations, maybe somebody will hire me as a client to help them with marketing.” So the first thing I found out is I have a gift for speaking and I didn't know that. I had never spoken before in public and I loved it. So I think the first thing you find out when you're an entrepreneur that kind of changes your direction is you sometimes venture into things, you find gifts that you didn't know you had.

And so one day, I spoke in front of an audience called the Institute of Management Consultants and I convinced them to let me speak in front of their chapter, and I was in St. Louis at the time and I could trace back almost 80% of my clients over the next four years to that one talk. And all of a sudden, all of these consultants wanted me to help them market their business.

So that was the first shift that I didn't plan was, all of a sudden, to start helping entrepreneurs, particularly solopreneurs instead of corporations, and I found that my heart was so much more satisfied, so I started to move in that direction. Then as I helped them, I started to realize that their fears around marketing and their business and building their business really were affecting the results in their business. So I started to move more and more into talking about programs, not only about marketing but also about your mindset and how your mindset affects and your fears will affect your business.

Well, then it started to get into a conversation about prosperity consciousness because that's a lot more … that's even deeper than just having a success mindset. It's about really viewing your whole life around abundance and knowing that you're taken care of and that everything is abundant. So I started to get into a different conversation, and people loved it. The entrepreneurs loved it and it was nothing that I had intended on ever talking about, but I felt the need, I felt really called to do that.

Well, at the same time, I started to go on my own personal journey, and through that personal journey, I discovered that I have a very big gift of intuition, and I started to learn a form of energy work and, really, in just regular practical terms, it's the ability to track energy flow in any person or situation and identify where there's a lack flow, which would be an energy block. So in a business, that looks like a lack of clients is an energy block, the wrong pricing is an energy block, the wrong marketing tactic or strategy is an energy block. So I started to talk about energy blocks in your business, and that started to get a lot of interest.

So I started to really evolve into different topics, but I always related them back to the success of an entrepreneur, until I wrote my book, Outrageous Business Growth, and through that experience launched a worldwide brand for me. And I wish I could tell you, Doug, that all of this stuff was planned. As a marketer, my background is strategic marketing and you set out a goal, and then you have a strategic plan. And I would love to tell you that I was super brilliant and I planned this whole route and nothing in my life looked like what I put on paper 'cause I had many strategic plans and, ultimately, I had to keep scrapping them and revising them.

Doug:                    Well, and I think people forget that too. I mean, life happens and we can have the perfect laid plans and stuff just happens and we just need to kinda refocus and say okay and move forward.

Debbie:                Yes, yes. So I started to kinda parallel teach classes on personal development, meaning I taught classes on mindset, I taught classes on getting grounded, I taught classes on getting clarity. And at the same time, I was then continuing to teach classes on business growth, and I loved it. I loved both. But eventually, through just really … I had to really follow starting to see where my passion was, and the marketplace in terms of marketing has changed dramatically, as you know.

With the internet, every two minutes, there's a new flavor of the month marketing strategy that people are talking about, and I will always go back to the basics, that it doesn't matter what marketing strategy is out there, the number one thing you have to know is who's your audience and how do you talk to them. And it doesn't matter what strategy you use, if you understand those two things, who's your audience and how do you talk to them, it doesn't matter how the marketing changes because you'll still be successful in building that following.

And from there, I started to feel more and more passionate as we're talking about spiritual topics and from that definition meaning topics more about being more fulfilled by your work. Because, ultimately, at the end of the day, being an entrepreneur is not easy. It's not. I mean, it's a joke if anybody tells you it's easy. But what is easy is to understand what you're passionate about, to understand who do you wanna serve and why do you wanna serve, and that's the kind of topics that started to interest me more and more. So I started to talk more about those topics and really kind of followed my own intuition instead of … I kind of scrapped the idea of following a game plan and I started following more and more my intuition, and that led me to the work today.

Doug:                    And when you find your passion, I mean, you obviously have more energy. And so, you're right, being an entrepreneur is not easy. There's always good days and bad days, or good months and bad months, and hopefully, they're not bad years, but at the end of the day, I love what I do so much. People say, “Well, what about retirement?” I'm saying, “Well, this is retirement. I get to do what I like to do every day. So really, what is the definition of retirement?” So do we spend time with family and friends and the gym and do all of the other things? Yeah, we do. They all fit around the business.

Debbie:                Yeah, and I don't even know if that word's even relevant anymore. It used to be you were old by the time you were 50. I mean, I think there's a lot of people that are just getting started when they're 50.

Doug:                    Well, that's what I thought until I was 50 and now I don't think it's that old anymore.

Debbie:                Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's like you go through life and life is too short. You really have no idea. You're renting this body that you're walking around in and you have no idea when the lease it up. And if that's the case, then first and foremost, I'm always gonna advocate do what you love, and in my case, what I love changed. I mean, there's no doubt about it. I started in 1994, that's 24 years later, and the only similarity is I'm very grateful I have marketing background 'cause there's no doubt about it, no matter what topic I talk about, I definitely use my marketing background strategies to connect with my audience. But I will tell you, I still have people following me from way back when and on completely different topics because they know me and they trust me, and they trust I'm gonna tell them the truth and it's gonna make a difference in their life, and that's all they care about.

Doug:                    Well, how do you deal when you're serving people around their mindset about a transition or a major shift because there's obviously all those fears. I mean, you talked earlier, a few minutes ago about people with their struggles with marketing, and I'd call it sometimes their fear of marketing, for whatever reason. So how do you help people work through that?

Debbie:                Well, I'll be very transparent and I'll tell you a story is that I told you that I had this strong intuition, and so I'm just gonna come right out and tell you when I work with people, I start to know things about people. So when I started to do this work and this energy work, and I was just doing it by night to heal myself as I was going through a divorce. I had no intention of talking about it out loud to anybody out in the marketplace. I was still talking about marketing.

And all of a sudden, I'm sitting in front of clients and I hear this voice in my head that starts to give me information about that person that's talking to me and it has nothing to do with marketing. It was very specific. Ask that person what happened when they were five and now they have a fear of this. It was really specific and it kind of freaked me out. And I'm like, “What is the matter with me? What's going on?”

But eventually, I kinda blurted it out. So this person's coming to me for marketing, they're telling me their marketing challenges, I'm hearing a voice in my head that's telling me something that has zero to do with marketing about that person, and I finally blurted out and said, “I'm just curious. Do you have a fear of blank?” And I kinda said to them what I was hearing in my head, and I'm telling you, Doug, I had the same reaction every time I did this. The person would stop, their jaw would drop, and then the tears would start. It didn't matter if it was a man or a woman, and they were like, “How could you know that?”

And then they just confessed to me their deepest fears and what was going on with them, and honestly, that was kind of their release. To be seen, to be understood, to be heard, and they'd have this massive release, and all of a sudden, their business would grow. I mean, yes, I would give them marketing things to do, but there were times that my clients saw an increase in their business just after that session without doing one more marketing thing because the bottom line is it just shows we're human beings, everybody has fears. The question is do you want to … Which is greater for you? Your mission to serve or your desire to be in fear? That's the question you have to ask yourself. Which is greater? Which is gonna drive you? And if you decide that you're gonna be driven by the need to serve, there will be plenty of people to help you move past those fears. That's not an issue. Does that make sense?

Doug:                    Yeah, totally makes sense. I'm just thinking as you're talking, I'm thinking, “Yeah, I can relate to that.” I can relate to it, but I don't always have that empathy because my approach is a little bit … It works for me, and mine is what's the worst thing that can happen, how likely is it to happen, am I willing to live with the results and move forward? But I know that it's easy to say that, but it's not always easy to do that.

Debbie:                No, but I think that's great … I mean, I think that's a great concept and a great approach, and here's why. It allows you to release the pressure on yourself, and fear is internal pressure and that's what stops people. There's so much internal pressure in their head saying, “You might screw up. You might fail. What if you succeed? Then what happens? Will you lose all your friends?” I mean, there's people who have fear of success, fear of failure, so there's no release of pressure. There's nothing to say, “Oh, let's just stop this dialogue.” That's a release of pressure.

So your approach is a fantastic approach. It's like saying, “Look, I'm just gonna release the pressure on myself. I'll go try it. It works, great. Then I know something great that's gonna help me in my business. If it doesn't work, well, fine. Then I'll just fix it. I'll try something else until it does work.” So I think it's a great approach, actually.

Doug:                    Well, it's funny because you said that you don't always plan stuff strategically, it just happens. And people ask me what was the biggest thing that moved my business forward, and it was totally out of my control, and that was the financial meltdown globally. My business grew insane because I went to my clients and said, “I think you should double your budget,” and then it worked and they said, “Now what?” I said, “Double it again.” So did I know it was gonna work? No. I was sure hoping that the numbers made sense and it did, but I didn't control that. I had nothing to do with it. That was a world financial meltdown that nobody could see until we had competitors that closed and people who did all sorts of other things. That was the approach I took and I'm just thankful that it worked.

Debbie:                Yeah. I remember when everything went down the tubes and when everything fell, and I remember telling people during that time, I said, “Look, this is why the whole concept of building a following, and then no matter what you do, they're still gonna follow you. Those are the people, when you have a loyal following, you're the person, if they have a limited amount of money because the market tanks, they still have to spend money, but now they're gonna be so much choosier. They're not gonna go try five other people's programs. They're gonna go to the person that they know and trust because they wanna be very specific and discerning about where they spend their limited amount of money.”

So this is, for somebody … So obviously, that's a testament to you, Doug, because if the market tanks and people are saying, “Okay, I'll keep spending money with you, Doug,” that's a walking representation of what I'm talking about because, guaranteed, they weren't spending money with a lot of other people at that time when the market tanked.

Doug:                    No, that's right. But like you said, that was out of my control and that was just a decision I made because it kinda made sense for me, and that's kind of my approach is no holds barred, I'm all in.

Debbie:                Yeah. Makes sense.

Doug:                    So in terms of what you're currently doing right now, can you walk us through a scenario or a company or a client or somebody, you don't have to give all their intimate details, obviously, but specifically that had a major breakthrough after you spent some time with them?

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Debbie:                Well, so there was somebody … I remember, this guy started working with me … Oh, I don't even remember how long ago. It's probably 10 years ago 'cause he started working with me when he was in his 20s and he's in his mid-30s now. And what I loved about him was he was like, “Look, I'm just gonna …” I said to myself, “I wish I was like you when I was in my 20s. Man, would I be in a different place.” ‘Cause he was so focused on trying to figure things out and really make a difference, and he invested in some very expensive programs with other people. Not mine, but other people.

So he took my classes, he loved them. He saw some difference, he loved them, but then he went off and he started to follow some other people. And ultimately, he came back to me and he said, “You know what, Debbie? I have now spent over $100,000,” and he goes, “and I don't have anything to show for it.” And I said, “Okay. Well, it's time for us to work together again.” And in a half a year, he went from $1500 a month to half a million dollars.

Doug:                    That's a great lift, yeah.

Debbie:                Not a month, but he made … But the thing was, I wasn't just helping him. In fact, I didn't give him a lot of business advice. I was giving him advice on there are so many things that affect your business and, yes, I fine-tuned some of the things, 'cause he was already doing some good things, but what I fine-tuned was his approach to life, what I fine-tuned was his approach to his business. So I fine-tuned things for him and I learned something a very long time ago, and as a direct marketer, you can take me out of a direct marketing, 'cause I don't … Of course, direct marketing is what literally drives the internet. Everything that is done on the internet is based on a direct marketing principle, so very lucky for me, that's my background.

But in direct marketing, the concept is that you wanna increase the response spending the least amount of money. So you're always focused on refining, refining, refining to increase the response. Well, I kind of adopted that as my life philosophy. What's the one small thing you can do that has the greatest impact? Whether it's on my life, on my health, on my business, doesn't matter what it is, and that's how I kind of approach everything. And then I want it to be as easy as possible. Just add, these are my rules. I want it to be as easy as possible and I want it to have the greatest amount of impact and to be in flow 'cause I'm not a big believer in a lot of hard work. I just don't feel like you need to struggle.

Doug:                    Well, and I think maybe that's really a message that's gotten out there into the social media space. Like him or not like him, Gary Vaynerchuk talks a little bit about … Well, he actually talks a lot about that it's a lot of work to get a business going, and I think he's right. I mean, I work my tail off, but I also think there are reasons, but there's also this belief that that's a badge of honor. What I really need to do is work seven days a week, 24 hours a day. Look at me grind, grind, grind, grind, grind. But I don't think you have to do that to be successful in business, and like you said, in terms of living to your purpose, I wasn't put here to work 24 hours a day. I'm not a machine.

Debbie:                Yeah. Well, I wanna make a distinction here. There's a distinction between hard work and struggle, that's one energy, and effortless action, that's a different energy. Okay? So if you take the same … Let's use an eight hour a day. If you are spending a day, eight hours, constantly in struggle, constantly thinking, “This is so hard,” constantly thinking, “Oh my god, I hope this works,” constantly thinking, “Will I be able to pay my bills? Will they like me? Will this be a success?” That takes a massive toll on your physical energy and your body.

Doug:                    Sure it does. Yep.

Debbie:                Now let's take the same eight hours and effortless action. You're taking action for eight hours, and at the end of the day, you're not feeling depleted, you're feeling excited, you're feeling energized, you're feeling proud, you're feeling confident. It's a massive difference. So it doesn't mean that I don't take a lot of action in my business, but you want it to be aligned action, meaning those things that are gonna make an impact and make a difference, and that's where, from a marketing standpoint, leverage becomes a very big deal. One action, how can you leverage that in multiple ways?

So I just wanted to make that distinction because I'm not here to say, “Oh, yeah, you can build your business in three hours and you're good to go.” That's not what it means. It means that if you are going to spend this time and energy building something, then do it in a way that you enjoy, makes you happy. You're enjoying your life.

Doug:                    I get that, yeah. And that's not where I was going, but I totally get that. I mean, if I look at the change of my business now and what my business was five, six, seven years ago, there's a big change because, yesterday, at 10:30, I was heading to the CrossFit gym. So my wife and I went there and got our butts kicked for an hour and finished in a heap on the floor in a pool of sweat, but in the middle of the day. People go, “How can you do that? You're supposed to be running a business.” I am running a business, but what I did realize was that the healthier I was physically, the more alert I was mentally and the more productive and more energy I had to work. So I can actually take an hour, or in this case, an hour and a half out of my day and get more work done than if I just sat behind my desk for eight hours.

Debbie:                Yeah, totally. Totally. Absolutely. Love that.

Doug:                    Well, and we went to an event last year called Real Man Talks and they had a number of men and women speaking, and I think what was really shocking for a lot of people in the audience, me included, was people were very transparent about where they were and a number of these guys had very successful companies, and they shared some of the struggles and the financial struggles and the people struggles they had with their team, and you would never have seen that looking at them or knowing their history because that's not the picture the media paints. But I think it was refreshing for the audience to understand that you're not alone, that people are going through the same struggles and challenges, but like you said, there are people to help you through that if you can get your mind around asking for help and connecting with them.

Debbie:                Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's why I'm led to shifting my focus in terms of what I talk about 'cause it's for that very reason. Right now, I'm working with an extremely successful radiologist, I work with lawyers, very successful lawyers. And so on the outside, they seem super … Obviously, they're extremely smart, they're helping people, they're very successful, but on the inside, not everybody's feeling that. Not everybody's feeling that.

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Doug:                    So this is obviously probably a deep question, but what do you think is preventing people from making that shift? So the shift of consciously being aware of, “I'm not where I want to be or need to be, or I have limiting beliefs and that's what's keeping me back,” so have that awareness, or, “I need to work with someone like you to work me through this process.”

Debbie:                What's stopping them from …

Doug:                    Yeah. What do you think is holding them back? Do you think it's a realization? What holds people back from making that shift or that move or acknowledging that that's their block?

Debbie:                Yeah. Well, it's a great question. I used to do an exercise when I spoke in front of audiences, and I'm gonna give you a variation of it 'cause it's gonna illustrate 'cause the answer is a little bit different depending on the person, and I used to stand in front of an audience and say, “I'm gonna ask you two questions, only two questions, and I'm gonna predict how successful you're gonna be in the next 12 months and I will be right. I've worked with thousands of people.”

I said, “Two questions I'm gonna ask you. One is how much money do you wanna generate in the next 12 months? Don't share it with anybody, I don't need to know what that number is. Just write it down. And the next question is, on a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being you're 100% confident you will meet or exceed that number you just wrote down, 1 being might as well forget it, just go home and put the covers over your head. What's your number level of confidence between 1 and 10?”

And I can just tell you, on average, people … Then I'd ask people to raise their hands. “If you were a 5 or below, raise your hand. If you were a 6, raise your hand. A 7, 8, 9, 10.” Now the reason I did that is every single one of those numbers illustrated where people were at with their thinking, and then I told them how long it would take them to reach that goal. If you were a 5 or below, you'll never reach that goal. Never reach the number you wrote down unless you made it so low, but if you're still putting yourself at a 5, it still seems out your realm.

So it has to do with your level of what you think is possible for yourself, so that's an internal question. People's belief systems dictate what they think is possible for themselves. If somebody … And there was also very specific characteristics behind those numbers, so I'll give you an example. Somebody that puts down a 10 is gonna actually exceed that number. They'll probably reach that 12-month goal somewhere, they'll be getting close somewhere around the 8th-month mark, and they'll go, “Wow, that was too low,” and they'll set it higher for themselves 'cause they're pretty close to reaching it if they haven't already.

Somebody who's a 9 will reach that goal somewhere around the 10-month mark, but the reason they didn't give themselves a 10 is because people that had a 9 sort of mindset, they always are looking for the edge. They hang around people they consider to have a 10 mindset 'cause they wanted to know what was the one thing they weren't thinking or doing and they wanted the edge in the marketplace and that was costing them.

Doug:                    Wow, that's interesting.

Debbie:                Yeah. So now people … I used to be an 8. So here's the 8s. The 8s would reach the 12-month goal somewhere around 12 to 14 months, but the way that 8 thinks is, “I will do everything it takes to meet that goal,” and the biggest challenge with an 8 is they had burnout. So they do effort a lot more than they need to, and every once in a while, they'll be like, “Oh, I'm not sure I should do this, so I better work harder.” So you see what that mindset … See how mindset's costing you time and energy? And then you get to the 7s, and once you're a 7 or below, a 7 will take you probably 16 months to 24 months to reach that goal, but the biggest challenge with a person with a 7 is they don't feel at all confident in their plan. So 7s tend to be the people that get stuck in procrastination and they buy everybody's program of success and then they get overwhelmed.

Doug:                    Sure. Never implement, yep.

Debbie:                So that's why I'm saying it depends. It's not like a one … But people were astounded when I had them say if you're a 7, raise your hand, then I went through how they operate. Their jaws would drop, “How do you know that?”

Doug:                    That's funny.

Debbie:                I think it's years of working with entrepreneurs. There isn't a fear I haven't heard, and so I started to see the similarities in people.

Doug:                    Well, I've seen that, obviously, in teams, and I've seen that with people that I've worked with, and I've seen that with clients I've worked with, and I don't understand the self-limiting beliefs. People will say, “Well, it must be nice for fill in the blank for that person or this person, but I could never do that.” I'm thinking, “Well, why not? Well, why not change your thinking?” “Well, I can't sell anything high end. I'm limited to … I can only sell to a $10,000 range.” “Well, why not? Why not sell to a $100,000 client?” “Well, I can't do that.” “Well, why?” “Well, it's expensive.” It's expensive for you, but there are lots of people who can write six-figure checks.

Debbie:                Yeah. And I'll tell you something, it's great that you have that … I love how you just put it out there, Doug, only because when you say it enough to people, either they're gonna run for the hills and stay in their fears, or you're the one that they needed to hear and go, “Maybe there's a possibility.” And that's why we do what we do. Even if you spark a possibility in somebody that, all of a sudden, that's the day they wake up and they heard your podcast, and before that day, they were really fearful of what they were doing, and maybe they heard this interview and they heard you talking and saying that, and they're like, “Well, wait.” Maybe that's the first day they ask themselves that question. “Well, why not? Why shouldn't I do that?”

Doug:                    Yeah. And that's something I struggle with still today, trying to understand that psychology. I read a book years ago, the author's name is Price Pritchett, and it was called the Quantum Leap Strategy. And I looked at the book, and when I read a book, I typically take notes. I like writing in the book and then I'll use a different color highlighter every time I read it. I've probably read that book half a dozen times. It's a really short book. And one of the things I liked is he said, “What if all the barriers were imaginary?”

Debbie:                Yeah, great question.

Doug:                    So why do you have to buy into the fact that the marketplace, you can only grow at 10% because that's what industry is doing? And so to your point of working harder or working smarter, I've told people the lineup is shorter if you're selling six and seven figure consulting gigs than it is trying to sell a five-figure gig.

Debbie:                Yeah, that's true.

Doug:                    Because that's where the common marketplace is, so why not go where the line is shorter? The amount of work is the same, but the payoff is significantly more.

Debbie:                Yep, yep.

Doug:                    Wow, that's really cool. I'm not gonna ask you to do any analysis, but I know I could talk to you for a really long time. I really like the way that you think and the fact that you've made some major shifts in your life and people … I figure life's just too short to be working in a space or working with people that you don't like and stuff that doesn't give you energy and build you up and use the gifts and talents that you've got.

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Debbie:                Yeah, and thank you for saying that. I don't want people to misunderstand, when I first used to teach marketing, that gave me juice. I loved it. It was high, and then it stopped being a high. And then all of a sudden, something else was giving me a high, and yet, people still kept coming to me. The same people that were listening to me in marketing now listen to me about grounding, or now listen to me about purpose, or some other type of topic because they just wanna believe that they do make a difference, they wanna be heard, they wanna be understood. And when you know that about your own marketplace, including those people, Doug, that you're talking about that hold the check for a million dollar project, that client wants to be heard, wants to be understood, wants to know you can solve their problems, and they wanna trust you. And it doesn't matter whether they're holding a million dollar check to hand you for a project or a hundred dollar check, and that's the bottom line.

Doug:                    Yeah, that's so true. I mean, you're there to help them solve their problem, but you need to understand what their problem is and then, obviously, write the right recipe to help them achieve their success. But like I said, the line is just shorter where there's more money because I think people are afraid to go there.

Debbie:                Yeah.

Doug:                    So who's one guest you think I should have on my podcast?

Debbie:                Oh my gosh. Well, we could go so many places with that.

Doug:                    Yes, we could. I'm leaving this up to you. This is over to you.

Debbie:                Yeah. Well, okay, so a person that I have been following marketing-wise, and maybe you've already had them, maybe you haven't. I have been following this man, oh gosh, I think it was I saw him on the big stages, I'd heard about him. He's one of the biggest internet marketers out there and he was online making millions in 1995 when nobody was even online, and I spoke at a conference and he was speaking, and it turns out we're both shy.

So he's sitting in the back of the room, I'm sitting in the back of the room, and I thought, “Oh, here's my chance,” and I approached him and I said, “May I interview you for a newsletter for my list just 'cause I'd love to hear some of your pearls of wisdom.” So that was me going, “Okay, here's a guy who is making boatloads of money, way more than me, I'm sure he has something to say.” And he gave me a couple pieces of advice, and what I love about him, he's unbelievably practical and simple and he makes millions. And I took one or two pieces of his advice and it made an immediate difference in my results in my business.

So his name is Armand Morin, I don't know if you've ever heard of him.

Doug:                    Yep.

Debbie:                And he could talk for days and years. He has talked for days and years. So when it comes to somebody that knows everything inside and out, including mindset and an entrepreneurial mindset, who has tried everything, who has failed and who's had unbelievable successes, I would say he'd be a great person.

Doug:                    Well, excellent. I'll follow up. Yes, I know who he is. I've followed a lot of the stuff that he's done and watched him early on coming up with a lot of the internet tools that he came up with, which were very different or revolutionary at the time in terms of putting audio on websites and all that other sort of stuff.

Debbie:                Yes.

Doug:                    So where can people find you if they wanna connect with you and learn more and say, “Hey, I like what I heard. I wanna explore this further or I wanna have a discussion.” Where's the best way for people to connect with you?

Debbie:                Yeah. They can go to my website, debbielynngrace.com. D-E-B-B-I-E L-Y-N-N G-R-A-C-E .com. And I've got some free things to download. I've got some articles on my blog that they might find really useful, and if they wanna contact me, they can do it through my website.

Doug:                    Perfect. So thanks of much. I really appreciate the conversation. I mean, it was a casual conversation. I like how you've got this energy and this confidence and you are just comfortable in your skin and where you're going.

Debbie:                Thank you. I really appreciate it. I've really enjoyed this. Time goes by really fast when you're having a good time.

Doug:                    Yes, it does. So thanks so much, listeners, for tuning into another episode. We'll make sure we get all this information transcribed and loaded up to our blog so you can follow up with Debbie. And I'd suggest that you take a look at the links, we'll make sure that she's got a link there to her LinkedIn page and her Facebook page, as well as her website. I've had a look through her website in advance to the interview and it's very easy to navigate, so you should be able to find exactly what you're looking for quickly. So thanks again for tuning in and just thanks again to Debbie Lynn for taking time and sharing with our audience.

Debbie:                Thank you so much.

Doug:                    So make sure you subscribe to us on iTunes, and if you want to keep up to date on our episodes as they're released, make sure you sign up for our email list at dougmorneau.com. So thanks again and we look forward to serving you in our next episode.

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Get in touch with Debbie Lynn

Debbie Lynn on LinkedIn

Web – Debbie Lynn Grace

Find out more about Debbie Lynn:

Links to other related podcasts and or blog posts:

HOW TO MARKET WITH HEART

BEING AUTHENTIC ONLINE WILL ATTRACT CUSTOMERS

HOW BELIEF SYSTEMS DICTATE WHAT IS POSSIBLE AND WHEN

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