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Tips on how to improve your sales strategy with Dom Cappuccilli
- To communicate effectively you have to put yourself in the other person’s shoes
- Tell problem focused stories
- Help diagnose your customer’s problems and let them know you have a solution because you have seen and fixed that problem hundreds of times
- How can you give your customer’s a better experience?
- You need to know who your target customer is and you need to know what the problem, what their responsibilities, tasks on a daily level are.
- When it comes to sales, instead of relying just on inbound leads I think being proactive is a really important skill to learn and also for your sanity.
- You can’t just give people a great playbook, a great sales playbook. You actually need to be with them and help them get off the runway so they can fly on their own.
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HOW TO IMPROVE YOUR SALES STRATEGY
HOW TO IMPROVE YOUR SALES STRATEGY
When it comes to sales, instead of relying just on inbound leads I think being proactive is a really important skill to learn and also for your sanity.
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Doug: Well, welcome back listeners to another episode of Real Marketing Real Fast. Today we’re going to talk about something that every entrepreneur and business owner absolutely needs to succeed and to stay in business, and that’s sales. Today I’ve got a guest in studio, and his name is Dom Cappuccilli. He is an expert storyteller and an expert and professional salesman. He combines the power as a trained storyteller with real-life world experience as an elite salesperson. In fact, he became an elite salesperson because he was a trained storyteller. He is the CEO of a company called The Clean Sell consulting firm, which helps hundreds of entrepreneurs to not only tell a better story but to build many of their sales efforts from the ground up.
After 10 years as a reporter, an author, and a screenwriter, Dom found his calling when he rewrote the sales story of a fast-growing healthcare company that doubled in revenue in six months. From there, he quickly rose to be a sales leader at unicorn startup called ZocDoc. During his career, Dom was amazed at almost all of the companies that he saw that were succeeding in spite of the sales story but not because of it. In 2016, he decided that it was time to change that, and The Clean Sell has been helping startups and small businesses ever since.
I’d like you to join me and welcome Dom to the Real Marketing Real Fast podcast today. Welcome, Dom. I’m super excited to have you on the podcast today to talk about your superpower and that’s moving the sales dial.
Dom: Thank you so much for having me. Looking forward to it, Doug.
Doug: I looked at a little bit of your background and your bio. Do you want to fill in some blanks and just let us know how you got to where you are today and how you’re helping people with this big issue and that sells more products and services?
Dom: Yeah, absolutely. My background is not a traditional business background. I actually started as a storyteller. I went to school for journalism, and then I was a sports reporter and a human interest reporter for a while, and then I shifted to fiction writing and then was a screenwriter. My 20s were an adventure. I did that and then I came to sales a little bit later, and I always had an entrepreneurial itch. I got to a point where I was in Los Angeles and I said I don’t know if I want to stay in the city and work really hard under some terrible boss for 10 years in order to then have a shot to be successful in screenwriting.
I needed a new start, and a friend of mine, I knew I was a good storyteller and a friend of mine who had a healthcare company said, “Hey, maybe you can help me tell a better story, a better company story.” I said, “Sure, let’s try that out.” I worked with them for about six months, and we were able to triple their sales pretty significantly just from some minor changes and tweaking the story and the way that we approached it with their prospects. I knew we might have something there.
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HOW TO IMPROVE YOUR SALES STRATEGY
HOW TO IMPROVE YOUR SALES STRATEGY
When it comes to sales, instead of relying just on inbound leads I think being proactive is a really important skill to learn and also for your sanity.
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I took another sales job, was recruited by another sales job at a startup called ZocDoc. They’re a big unicorn startup. That was really like a boiler room environment where I could cut my teeth. I had this impression that I was going to have to start over once I decided to change careers and that I was going to have to really work from the beginning and I was going to lose 10 years. It turned out I was actually completely wrong about that. The background that I had as a storyteller was the absolute best preparation I could have had for a sales and entrepreneurship career, and that’s because a good sales pitch is, in fact, a good story. You just have to know whose the story you’re telling, and you to have to know how to tell it in an effective way. If you can do that, you will be successful in sales and I think overall in business.
Doug: Well, it’s interesting because as we talked earlier, storytelling is such a hot topic but there’s a difference between telling a good story and telling a good story that generates sales. Do you want to share, what’s the difference? There are a zillion people saying, hey, you should be telling your story and saying that’s great, but how do I turn that into sales?
Dom: The problem here I think is a point of view issue. Any story, a story about some guy going … some plumber that you don’t know about who doesn’t have anything to do with you isn’t really all that appealing unless you can put yourself in that person’s shoes. A good sales story is all about perspective. I think where most of the companies that I work with go wrong is they’re actually really good at telling their story and the story of their product or their platform and all the features it has and how cool that is and what the benefits are, but they’re really bad at telling the story of the problem that they’re solving for their prospects.
The key here is if you want to tell a compelling sales story and brand story that’s going to actually result in conversions, you need to be telling the story of the problem that your clients are having and essentially telling their story so it connects with them and they’re able to just say, “Okay, great, well this applies to me. Now I’ll trust you to help me,” once you’ve proven that. Most people jump to the solution way before they start talking about the problem. That’s really it.
Doug: Guilty.
Dom: It’s a very common thing that happens, but there’s a ton of research out there about this that if you can effectively position yourself as an expert in the problem that you solve, your solution means a lot less. The explanation of the solution means a lot less. People will just trust you because you’ve shown yourself to be an authority and have credibility on the problems that they’re having.
Doug: Now having heard you say this, that makes sense, but I’m definitely guilty of liking the tactics and the technology and all the dials and buttons you get to push, but the client, as you said, doesn’t really care. They just have a problem, and the problem is they need sales. Yeah, that makes sense, but that also brings something else to mind, and that is after you said that, I started immediately thinking of all the companies that I’ve talked to that have pitched me or told a story. I can’t think of one that told a story of my problem. They were all stories of the company and their products.
Dom: Yeah. The issue is that we have a one-sided perspective. We also care about our own stuff, and we assume that other people care about our own stuff. The truth is they don’t. They care about themselves and their problems and what’s going on in their lives. That’s why there are so many times that sales pitches, I see it over and over again with my clients where I’ll actually go in and sit with them and sit with them in a big board meeting that they’re having with all the decision makers and they start checking their phones after two or three minutes. The reason they’re doing it is that they don’t engage them. You can’t engage somebody unless you start telling them something they actually care about. What they care about is themselves.
Your job as a salesperson is first to meet them where they’re at and make sure that you’re showing credibility by telling them and asking and understanding and clarifying what their needs and pain points are, and then you slowly connect that to a different approach and then also your product which embodies that approach. You can’t start with the approach piece because you’ll lose people. It’s like jumping.
Think about it like this. I use this analogy a lot. If I turn on Star Wars with five minutes left to go and I see Luke blow up the Death Star. I’ve never seen Star Wars before. I don’t care. It means absolutely nothing to me. Sorry again for ruining Star Wars for anyone who hasn’t seen it in the last four years. If I see that and I don’t know any of the backstories of the problem or the struggle that they went through, I don’t care. The problem is every company … Star Wars … I’m sorry. Blowing up the Death Star is the solution. Stop blowing up the Death Star in the first five minutes of your movie. That’s what I tell my clients.
Doug: How much resistance do you get when you first bring that up to somebody? Because to me, that’s a major shift in your thinking and your whole strategy.
Dom: Well, if somebody is talking to me, they’re usually having some form of problem. I think it actually logically makes sense to most people once I explain it. I think the power that my background gave me is I really learned the ins and outs of story, and it was my craft. A lot of people who tell great stories don’t know how they’re telling a great story or why they’re telling a great story. They just have a knack for telling stories. If I can actually deconstruct the structure of that for them and tell them why they’re telling a great story or what’s missing in their bad story or the perspective shift, it actually makes sense to most people once we do it and then works with them. Especially with the end product when we’re able to actually have that commercial insight, is what I call it, but basically, a problem-focused story. Once we actually have that, they’re ecstatic with the results.
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HOW TO IMPROVE YOUR SALES STRATEGY
HOW TO IMPROVE YOUR SALES STRATEGY
When it comes to sales, instead of relying just on inbound leads I think being proactive is a really important skill to learn and also for your sanity.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Doug: Do you have an example that you could share with us of somebody that you worked in and that you had a happy ending?
Dom: Yeah, absolutely. I worked with a company that helps regional grocers to compete against all the disruption that’s happening in the grocery industry by Amazon and obviously all the brick and mortar issues. They were having a lot of trouble communicating with these. They were going and speaking to people who own regional grocers. If you can think about the profile of a person who owns a regional grocer, it’s like a 50 to 60-year-old white man generally. When you’re trying to sell that person technology, they’re looking at and showing them this cool platform. Their eyes are going to glaze over.
The first thing that we really had to do was meet them with the pain points that they’re having, which is, oh my God, they’re fighting a two-front war here. On one end, regional grocers are being undercut by the ALDIs of the world who are these really low-end grocers, and then on the high end, they’re being hurt by Whole Foods or some of these higher end, more boutique grocers, and they’re losing the edges. On top of that, as all of that’s happening, the entire industry is in danger of being completely disrupted, and the number of regional grocers is going to go down 25%. That’s how we started the pitch.
The next piece was, well, don’t think that you can hide from this. You absolutely can’t hide from this. Putting an e-cart in, meaning where people can actually just shop and have things delivered online, that’s not going to be enough to survive in the long run. You need to start really creating a better experience for your shoppers who actually like going to retail and like going to brick and mortar because there’ll always be a subsection of the … It’s like people who like feeling a newspaper. There will always be a subsection of those people who want that. If you want to save those people, you need to start thinking about this differently and focusing on giving them a better experience rather than helping people to do an online shopping cart because you’re never going to beat Amazon at that.
Doug: No. That’s right.
Dom: We really stepped back and then we said, “All right. How do you give them that better experience?” The answer is something much more tailored, which is what this product did. You need to give them something tailored where they know exactly where to go, and it actually makes the shopping experience more fun and more interactive for them. That’s how you take market share from other retail grocers, which are the people who are actually in play for you because you’re not going to get me. You’re not going to get the guy who’s 30 and orders everything on Amazon fresh and it gets delivered to his door.
There is a subset of the market that you’re going to get, who are families, who actually like going to the grocery store and experiencing that. If you give them a better experience than other retail grocers, you can win. You can win that, and you can be one of those people who doesn’t get wiped out in the next … I think it was 25% down by 2024 or something was the projections that we had done some research on. If you don’t … and here’s our product, which is one approach to help you start doing that. We actually met … The key here is if I just said, “Hey, here’s our product. Here’s a bunch of cool stuff that it does.” That means nothing to them. They’re just going to say, “I don’t know what’s different about that.”
If you have to think like a CEO of a regional grocer, I’m freaking out right now. How can you not be? Everything is being disrupted. Even on the retail end, you’re getting hit at the high and low levels, so you have to meet them with where they’re at. If you start telling them that story that they know already exists and they’re going to say, “Oh wow. This guy gets it. How can you help me?” That was an example of a company that we’ve done some great story work on, and it made a huge difference for them in their pitching.
Doug: You had two points there. One was meet them where they are, but the other one was to identify who their competitors were, and it wasn’t that they were going to ever win against Amazon online. As you said, you’re taking market share from other regional and small grocery stores. I have often heard people say, “Oh, I’m going to do this to compete with Amazon.” To your point, you’re not going to compete with Amazon. It’s not going to work.
Dom: Yeah, that’s exactly it. What this is called is the insight piece. Think about it like you want to think about yourself in any kind of sales, and this goes beyond sales because this type of information can be communicated in any type of marketing or content marketing as well. The basic, think about yourself as a doctor. In the beginning, you got to meet them where they’re at with their pain points. I go into the doctor and I say, “I got a runny nose. I have 110 fever and this is happening.” Your job as a doctor is then to say, “Okay, well, here’s your symptoms. Thank you for telling me your symptoms. Why don’t you tell me what you think is going on?” Your job as a doctor is to diagnose the underlying problem that is causing those symptoms.
Your job as a salesperson and as a business really is to act as an authority figure and say, “Hey, listen. We know this problem is happening and we know it’s out there. Here’s why this problem is happening. We see this problem. You have 500 problems on your desk every day and you’re deep in your business, but you only see the problem that we solve once. I see the same problem 500 times every day, and we created a company to solve that problem, so I am an authority on that problem and I’m going to tell you exactly why it’s happening to you and then how to fix it.”
Doug: In terms of a shift for CEOs or entrepreneurs that are listening, I’m assuming that once you work with people and walk them through this process and to help them do that, that this message and the work that you’re doing is going to go across the entire organization in terms of social and web presence and video and whatever they’re doing to talk to customers. Would that be a fair assumption?
Dom: Yeah. It’s a sign of the times. The sales, there’s a bunch of research on this as well, the corporate executive board has done some really good stuff on this, but the sales process is starting earlier and earlier now. The vast majority of people are far along in the process by the time they get on and see your platform or talk about your services or whatever it is. The sales process starts at that beginning point, which is recognizing that you have these pain points, and marketing and messaging internally and then what you’re putting out to the world is all about finding people who are having those pain points and giving them content that’s necessary and helpful to approach those pain points and understand why they’re happening. “Here are my pain points,” “here’s why that’s happening” piece is so key in getting people to inbound into you as well and getting people … and if you’re a B2C product and getting people to sign up for whatever you’re doing or buy whatever you’re doing.
Doug: I think about the number of purchases that we make and even major purchases right down to a vehicle. My wife wanted a new SUV. I said, “Go online. Do the research. Tell me what you want and just go and set up an appointment.” She goes to the consumer report, goes through, does all the work. The sales process started way outside of a dealership. It started brand agnostic. Let’s find out which brand I want before they even showed up on anybody’s radar.
Dom: Yeah. Actually, the auto industry is a really good example of this. I’ve done some work there and consulting for some companies that are doing electric vehicles. What I realized in all of that is that the auto industry is a perfect example. You used to have to go into a dealership and you would talk to them and then haggle with them, but you didn’t really have all the information. Now as technologies out there and as all these review sites are out there and that type of thing, the amount of information that a consumer has heading into that initial meeting is so much higher.
For an auto, it’s much harder to screw somebody over if you’re a dealer and price them much higher than they’d be willing to go. The power is going into the consumer’s hand, and that’s why that shift needs to happen to make sure that you are telling a powerful story because if you’re not telling a powerful story and really providing a value, you’re going to lose that. Those middlemen, brokers, that type of thing are really, really struggling right now for that reason.
Doug: That’s right. That’s what happened. She picked a dealership. She said, “Hey, I want the Porsche Cayenne. It’s the highest rated. The only negative is it’s expensive, but it beats everything else out there.” Everything is done on the internet. You show up. You go to the dealership. You say hi. You go for a test drive. You come back. You talk price. You sign the papers. You’re out in an hour.
Dom: That’s exactly it. The role of the salesperson is different now.
Doug: Looking at big retailers, you mentioned groceries, and I can’t help but think of a company like Sears that was started in the catalog business and was probably the dominant consumer brand in the catalog business. Amazon eat their lunch.
Dom: Yeah, of course. I think that’s more market factors, honestly, than anything that Sears was … The problem that Sears has, they didn’t adapt. By the time they thought to adapt, they were way, way behind the curve and they were never going to be able to have the type of market share that they were looking for. The answer isn’t to breed faster horses.
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HOW TO IMPROVE YOUR SALES STRATEGY
HOW TO IMPROVE YOUR SALES STRATEGY
When it comes to sales, instead of relying just on inbound leads I think being proactive is a really important skill to learn and also for your sanity.
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Doug: I like that.
Dom: Yeah, it’s true. I think that’s maybe what Sears was looking at doing and they just weren’t forward-thinking enough. Obviously, there’s a disruption that happens in every market. I’m sure someday, unless Amazon takes over the world, someday, there will be some company out there that jumps in front of Amazon because Amazon got stale.
Doug: Well, yeah. Who knows? As you said, breeding faster racehorses aren’t the answer. That’s a great line to remember. When we’re thinking of startups or entrepreneurs that are doing this and they don’t have tons of money to put in the wrong place, what advice do you give them in terms of how do they start thinking about this process, whether it’s lead generation or whether it’s their sales pitch to get them started?
Dom: I think fundamentally, they need to know … A couple of things. I think fundamentally, you need to know who your target customer is and you need to know what the problem, what their responsibilities, tasks on a daily level are. This is specific to B2B sales generally, but I think it’s applicable to B2C as well. You really need to know that person inside and out, and you really need to know the problem that you’re solving for that person inside and out. Because if you don’t know that, nothing else matters. I can’t help people who don’t know their business. I can help them … One of the things that we do is customer discovery, which is like speaking to customers about those needs, their target customers about what those needs are and how our product can solve them in relation to them.
In general, that’s the first step that you need to take. Talk to 10 people who are not your current customers. You should definitely talk to your current customers as well, but find a way to reach out to 10 people who are the types of customers that you would be selling to and learn about what the common unifying problems and themes they have are, so then you can apply your messaging to what those problems are. The number one thing is knowing your customers. That’s not always easy to do on your own. That’s one of the services we offer. If you have the resources to do that, that’s absolutely step number one.
Step number two stops talking about you and your products. Start talking about your prospect and their problems. If I can bring down everything that I do into one sentence, it’s that.
Doug: What does the process look like when you’re working with a client? If I’m a new client, I’m going to start working with you, what is the process and where are you going to start and how are you going to walk people through to the end solution? I know we’ve got a short time so you’re not going to solve a problem here today, but just give us an idea of what that looks like.
Dom: Yeah, sure. I fill a couple of different niches for the customers that I work with. If we’re talking entrepreneurs who are trying to scale, I help them to really solidify and create a scalable and structured sales process strategy and messaging. What that means is I act as a translator for their subject matter expertise and put that into a full sales process. That’s usually a three to six-month endeavor when I’m working with a company. Sometimes I’ll do some of these quick hitter projects where we meet for four to six hours over the course of three weeks, and at the end of those three weeks, they have that brand story that we’ve been talking about. That ends up being the skeleton for all of their marketing and sales materials and messaging. You can apply that backstory to many different mediums.
Doug: How cooperative do you find, if we’re scaling up and we’re a little bit larger business when you’re dealing with a VP of marketing and a VP of sales that the teams will pull together with you? Which group do you work with? Are you working with the CEO? Are you working with the C-level guys?
Dom: Generally, I’m working with the CEO, and then we bring in marketing and sales. One of the funny side benefits I didn’t realize when I started this company is that part of my job is actually to get those people, not just to inform the message, but coalesce around a message because the sales and marketing have this habit of marketing is not out there talking to customers, and sales is thinking about it in a more transactional way. It’s really important to understand how these two can benefit each other and not fight. My girlfriend owns a marketing agency, so I feel like every day, I’m bucking the trend of sales and marketing hating each other. Although sometimes, we hate each other do, but generally not too bad.
Doug: Well, it’s interesting because I often talk to a small business or even larger businesses and I find that people, I call it they’re hiding. They’re doing social media posts or they’re sending out emails and they’re going, “This is my sales effort.” I’m saying, “But you’re not talking to anybody.” There seems to be this resistance often in the marketplace to go have a sales conversation. Do you find that still pretty prevalent today as you’re working with your clients?
Dom: Yeah. I think there’s definitely some fear of doing an actual outbound process. People like to say, “Okay. Well, I’ll have my … Hopefully, these referrals will come through and then I’ll talk to them and it’s great.” You need to be more proactive than that. Eventually, your business is going to reach a stage where inbound … It puts you in a scarcity mindset if that makes sense, where you’re always wondering what’s going to come through the door. I think being proactive in doing that is a really important skill to learn and also for your sanity. I know there’s a little bit of fear to it, but if I’m constantly wondering what’s going to come through the door and I’m not really empowered as an entrepreneur to plan and take control of my business rather than my business, the revolving door deciding how much growth I’m going to have this year.
Doug: Do you find that or have you found that when you implement the tactics and the consulting and helping people to get their processes in place, do you find that there’s any churn or any feedback that come from the sales guys because the method or the way that you sell has changed a bit?
Dom: Yeah. There’s certainly some change management. One of the early learnings I had was you can’t just give people a great playbook, a great sales playbook. You actually need to be with them and help them get off the runway so they can fly on their own. We actually do a lot of sales coaching as part of that three to six-month endeavor that I mentioned where we will sit down and listen to calls and then give feedback post about if they’re applying the concepts within the scripts that we’ve written correctly and what’s behind those concepts. That’s a really important process for us.
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HOW TO IMPROVE YOUR SALES STRATEGY
HOW TO IMPROVE YOUR SALES STRATEGY
When it comes to sales, instead of relying just on inbound leads I think being proactive is a really important skill to learn and also for your sanity.
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Doug: That makes sense. There are so many consultants and people who put together programs and they give them to you, but then it’s left to the business owner or their C-level guys to get the team on board. Monitoring is obviously going to give us some metrics and some numbers to see if we’re moving forward.
Dom: Yeah. It’s super, super important.
Doug: What are some of the worst advice that you hear people giving in your space?
Dom: Oh, there’s so much of it.
Doug: Well, pick one or two. I just know that I … Being at conferences and talking to different people, every once in a while, you’ll hear something far away and you’re going like, “Oh.”
Dom: I think the number one thing I see that is a mistake is people say you have a great founding story. Make sure your capabilities deck is way up too … Those are probably the two. I have a great founding story. A great founding story means nothing unless the founding story is the exact problem that your customer was having, but nobody cares about your founding story unless it applies to them. In that case, it’s okay.
The second piece is people spend thousands of dollars on these capabilities decks that have 18 slides about them and, again, nobody cares about them. Forget about the slides and think about the messaging.
Doug: It’s interesting. I just had that conversation. We’ve got some adult kids and with one of my daughters, they said, “You know what the favorite word that people like to hear?” She said “no.” I said their name. You’re right. It’s about the prospect. On to good advice. I’ve got a note here and it says that your therapist gave you some of the best business advice that you ever received. We’ve got to ask, what was that advice?
Dom: That advice was I went in and met with him and I told him I was having a lot of problems because I had burned out my territory and I was up for a promotion. I thought I was going to get that promotion, and I realized that if I didn’t get up to a certain number of sales that month, I was going to lose out on the promotion. I talked to my therapist, and I was super angry about it. He said, “Well, you got two choices. You can accept that. You can be mad about it or you can accept that you can do everything right and it might not work out and try your best. If you do that and live with the fact that you can fail, you’ll be okay.” I did that, and it made a huge, huge difference for me.
Doug: Yeah, it’s funny how we’re all wired to be afraid to fail. I’m not obviously immune to that. I just have a really simple formula that I use when I’m making a major decision, a decision that I’m afraid of failing. What’s the worst that could happen? How likely is that to happen? Could I live with that if it did happen, and then just move forward.
Dom: Yeah, it’s an easier way to keep going.
Doug: Well, thanks so much for sharing, Dom. That has really left lots for us to think about. I really appreciate your insight and your direction. The fact that not only are you a storyteller but you’ve got real-life experience standing face to face and toe to toe and talking to customers. I want to thank you again for taking the time to share with us. Unless there’s … I want to go back and just reflect on a couple of things that Dom said. The first was making sure you’ve targeted your customer avatar, knowing who they are, but most importantly is to make sure that their problems are in our story. That our stories aren’t about our brand or our products or our technology.
If you want to follow up with Dom and find him online, you can find him on the web at thecleansell.com. You can also find them on Facebook at facebook.com, The Clean Sell, as well as Twitter, @TheCleanSell. You can find Dom or connect with him on Linkedin if you want to follow up and have a further discussion.
I want to say thanks so much for listening today. I hope that there was some insight here, something that you can take away and that the information that Dom shared with us as well as myself, we can implement and improve the stories that we’re telling to make sure that we include our customers’ problems … not just include but focus on their problems, and that will help each of us move the sales dial. Thanks for tuning in. Thanks for listening. I appreciate you as an audience. I appreciate your feedback, and I look forward to serving you on the next episode.
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HOW TO IMPROVE YOUR SALES STRATEGY
HOW TO IMPROVE YOUR SALES STRATEGY
When it comes to sales, instead of relying just on inbound leads I think being proactive is a really important skill to learn and also for your sanity.
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Get in touch with Dom:
- Web – The Clean Sell
- Dom on LinkedIn
Find out more about Dom:
Links to other related podcasts and or blog posts:
HOW TO USE WEBINARS TO IMPROVE SALES
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