Step into the fast-paced world of ‘Real Marketing Real Fast’ with me, Doug Morneau. Each episode is a power-packed journey through the twists and turns of digital marketing and website acquisition. Expect unfiltered insights, expert interviews, and a healthy dose of sarcasm. This isn’t just another marketing podcast; it’s your front-row seat to the strategies shaping the digital landscape.


Market with Heart Tips by Cindy Schulson

  • Marketing with heart is authentic marketing that feels good for you and the people that you’re reaching
  • Create a core message. What do you stand for in business?
  • We need to simplify and streamline our marketing. It can get overly complicated
  • A lot of people try to get into the leveraged income right away and that’s a mistake if you don’t have a big enough list
  • Marketing is just about education these days
  • You don’t need to spend hours on social media to grow a successful business
  • Clarify your message, share your message, monetize your message

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To market with heart be authentic and do what feels good for you and the people that you’re reaching

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Doug Morneau:                Well, welcome back. This is another episode of Real Marketing Real Fast. Today, I think you’re in for a real treat. I’ve got a guest with me in the studio, Cindy Schulson. Now, I met Cindy at the New Media Summit in San Diego, one of many people I met but we’re kindred spirits because we’re both in marketing. She has a slightly different take on the marketing that we’re going to talk about today but she shows coaches and consultants how to stand out in a noisy online world by marketing with your heart versus marketing with hype. She brings decades of marketing experience working with a company such as Coca-Cola, Visa, combined with a decade of online marketing to create a paradigm shift in how marketing could be done with integrity and heart. One of her greatest gifts is helping her clients sort through their brain dump of ideas so they can find those golden nuggets that will make them shine in their own unique way. Cindy is well known for her down-to-earth approach and what you see is what you’ll get. Her love of adventure has led her to live and work in five countries and she continues to bring that adventurous spirit to both her life and her business. So, welcome to the Real Marketing Real Fast podcast.

Cindy Schulson:                Thank you and I just have to give you a shout out because I remember sitting at a table with you at New Media Summit and just picking your brain about the podcast and you were so helpful.

Doug Morneau:                Well, that’s why we’re there. It was a really good event and we met some really good people and I think everyone learned some stuff and made some new contacts.

Cindy Schulson:                Yeah. No, it was a great event, truly, truly great. I’m looking forward to the next one.

Doug Morneau:                There’s a couple of things that really stand out in your messaging and I’m not sure which one you want to talk about but I mean, one of them in terms of sorting through the brain dump of ideas. What entrepreneur doesn’t have a hundred ideas running through the mind that … There’s one obvious topic. Another one is marketing with your heart versus hype. So, where do you want to start?

Cindy Schulson:                Let’s start with the marketing with heart. Let’s go for it, the bigger topic and then we can drill down.

Doug Morneau:                Okay. So, what does that mean?

Cindy Schulson:                So, to me, there are a few things. It really means marketing that feels good for you and the people that you’re reaching. And that’s sort of the litmus test, like what I want to be on the receiving end of this because … Honestly, I think it was like this light bulb moment for me, I was on … You know [AG 00:02:15]? AG was at that event too and he had me at his event and I was on his panel and he asked me a question. He said, “Cindy, do you like marketing?” I was like … It kind of struck me for a minute because I realized I really do like marketing because it’s creative and it allows you to really reach to people you’re here to reach. But I also realized that most people really don’t like marketing and I think it’s because of the way they see other people marketing themselves, of the way it’s being done. It just creates this sort of yuck factor.

I think there is a way to do marketing that I call it about honoring yourself, honoring your value, your voice and your vision and we can dive into each of those. That’s the first litmus test for me. It feels good that it’s authentic. It’s like who you really are and it adds real value. Those are some of my litmus tests.

Doug Morneau:                I think it’s tough to be bold enough as an entrepreneur to be who you really are because I can’t speak for everybody else but you’re afraid that if you are who you really are that you’ll offend some customers or people won’t like you or people won’t do business with you so you’re trying to anticipate who should I be and what should my messaging be instead of this is who I am and this is how I operate.

Cindy Schulson:                Yeah, that’s such a great point, Doug, because one of the most important things I do with my clients is to help them create what I call a core message which is what you stand for in your business. And the way I see it is that like if you can really communicate what you stand for, like not just what you do but the thing that you’re all about, the thing that makes you want to get up there and just shout your message so that you can make a real difference in the way people think about what you do. So, I’ll give you some examples of that in a second, but when you think about …

Here’s a simple way to drill down to it. We know that people they buy on emotion and they justify with logic. We know that as a fact. Your message has to connect with the hearts and minds of your ideal clients and in order to do that, you need to put your heart and your mind in your message. And it took me years to figure this out even though I work in strategic communication throughout my entire career because I was operating so much from the head and it took me years to really unravel it and realize that when I put more of my heart in my messaging, that’s when I can attract the people I like that really value me, not just what I do but who I am as a person and aren’t those the people we want to work with?

Doug Morneau:                Yeah, absolutely. I have a rule of thumb and obviously, it’s not my hard fact but it’s basically if I wouldn’t invite you to my home to meet my family and have dinner, then you’re probably not going to be a good fit as a client.

Cindy Schulson:                Yeah, we have to go through those bumps and bruises to figure that out sometimes, don’t we? To go, “Oh, my gosh, this was so not the right fit.”

Doug Morneau:                Yeah. I’m thinking a lot of stories. I’m thinking, “Yeah. No, that wasn’t good.”

Cindy Schulson:                Yeah, and it’s really interesting because now that my brand is really clear and my messaging is really clear, the people who are attracted to me really get this concept of marketing from within and like putting your heart in your messaging. And that makes my work so much more fun.

Doug Morneau:                Well, your branding is clear. I made that comment to you offline was that I was really impressed with the way that your branding flow through all of your social media and all your websites so it was really clear who you are, what you do, what your offering was and how people could buy and engage with you.

Cindy Schulson:                Thank you. That’s it. Like it’s just clear and concise, right? That’s what we got to do because there’s so much noise. We had to break through that noise.

Doug Morneau:                Well, and I’m not sure, how you break through the noise. There’s so much out there so you really still need to get in front of people and I’m not convinced that people don’t market because they don’t like marketing. I think that people often don’t market or spend time in sales because they are busy being the practitioner of whatever it is they’re selling and they’re just uncomfortable doing that so they don’t it.

Cindy Schulson:                I agree that’s part of it for sure but the reality is a lot of people aren’t so busy doing what they should be … The practitioner part because they don’t have a client.

Doug Morneau:                That’s fair enough.

Cindy Schulson:                And why don’t they have the clients? Because they’re not doing the marketing, right?

Doug Morneau:                Yeah, you’re absolutely right. It’s funny and that’s why I say that’s why they’re doing things like, “I’m going to rebuild my website. I’m going to do this on social media.” I’m saying you need to get some sales. Move past the playing it your business and go generate some revenues so you can serve people.

Cindy Schulson:                You’re absolutely right. It’s so much easier to do like the behind-the-scenes stuff instead of like getting your message out there. That’s part of … And I think also there’s a lot of confusion. There are a few factors. There is sort of like the yuck factor. There’s the “I don’t want to do it because it’s scary and I might get rejected” factor and then there’s just the overwhelming confusion which is because there’s … And this is where that bright shiny object thing comes in and that’s death.

Doug Morneau:                Yeah. I was just at a conference in Las Vegas, an email marketing conference. And there were three marketing conferences together and there were sure a lot of brand new bright shiny objects down there that could distract you for weeks and paralyze you from moving forward in your business.

Cindy Schulson:                Oh, it so can and frankly, I think that for most people, it’s overly complicated. We need to simplify and streamline our marketing and so that’s like one of the things I love to do. It’s just like break it down into like little pieces. To me, marketing is just sharing your message with the right people so they’re inspired to take action. We have to break that down. We have to know who the right people are. We have to know what your message is and we have to know what action you want them to take and how you’re going to inspire them to take it. That’s like the strategic foundation that we got to get in place before you can even start getting your message out there. Does that make sense?

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To market with heart be authentic and do what feels good for you and the people that you’re reaching

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Doug Morneau:                Yeah, absolutely. If you’re talking to the wrong people or message is not right, it’s not going to work for sure.

Cindy Schulson:                Yeah, exactly. And then you don’t have to have like five million different ways to share your message. It doesn’t have to be that complicated like just choose the right fit for you and I found like you probably have found that speaking is just one of the best ways to share your message.

Doug Morneau:                Absolutely. Speaking, and so it really comes down to where are your customers. If they’re at the local Chamber of Commerce or board of trade, then go there. You can go meet them, shake hands, exchange business cards. If they’re not there, then where are they? And really just go where they are and use the tools you’ve got. You’re right, you don’t need to have the latest, greatest, newest, fanciest technology and we all have an email and a phone. That’s a pretty basic way to start.

Cindy Schulson:                It’s so true. Every time I’ve done the fancy kind of stuff, I’ve done it. Believe me, we’ve all done it, right? Every time I’ve tried to over-complicate things and like get every little piece all hooked up just the right way with the latest blah-blah-blah, it hasn’t been as profitable as just going back to the basics.

Doug Morneau:                Can you share a story, an example maybe whether it’s your business or a client’s business where you walked them through this process to help them get clear and kind of what the transition and result were for them?

Cindy Schulson:                Sure. You mean just walking them through like the foundational pieces, right?

Doug Morneau:                Well, just an example of how you work somebody through this. Because that’s a big statement saying, “Hey, I can help you stand out amongst the noise,” because there is a lot of noise these days everywhere we go.

Cindy Schulson:                There is so much noise, yeah. I’m going to share with you a story of one of my favorite clients. I have so many favorite clients. It’s really hard to pick. One of my clients, I’ll tell you a couple of quick stories. I’ll even share it like some messaging that we came up with. For instance, one of my clients teaches personal development. Now, who the heck doesn’t teach personal development, right? What we wanted to get clear on, number one, is her core message like what is the stand you’re here to take? When you hear all these people talk about personal development, where do you feel they’re missing the boat? And we came up with a core message that personal development isn’t about reinventing yourself, it’s about recognizing and celebrating who you truly are. We came up with a core message for her to take a stand in her business. Now, I want to point something to you. Do you see how aligned that message is with my core message of marketing from within?

Doug Morneau:                Sure. Yeah, absolutely.

Cindy Schulson:                Yeah. Even though we teach completely different things, we’re aligned in our vision of the world, if you will, right? Even though it’s completely different things. Now, this is somebody who has a huge … She’s been teaching personal development for 20 years but she never came online and so a lot of the people who come to me, they might have had a successful business but they have never come online.

We put together her messaging. We completely redid her website. We created a giveaway, a free gift so that she could start building a list and created a Facebook group so she could build a community. And now, we’re launching an online program for her. Actually, it’s going to be a very simple program that’s going to be a training program that’s going to then lead to consultation. I think a lot of people try to get into the leveraged income right away and that’s a mistake if you don’t have a big enough list like start simple. Just start by doing some free training and then offer a consultation. You can always down sell to an online program. That one little tidbit alone, I have to tell you has completely transformed my business, by the way.

Doug Morneau:                Yeah, it’s interesting because you hear … When you go to the events, nobody stands up and says, “Oh, I only have 20 people on my list.” The people that are standing up are going, “Oh, I have 50,000. I have 100,000.” But I built enough list for myself and my clients and it’s not easy and you need to really, like you said, start with what you’ve got and it starts with one and then it’s a 10, and it’s a 100 and then you go from there, like you said to build your community.

Cindy Schulson:                That’s right. It’s not so … When we’re talking about with the way to like honor yourself and not get caught up in the bright shiny object, yeah, don’t buy a program that teaches you how to like do joint ventures or create a challenge or all these crap like there are so many great things but where are you at now in your business?

What’s the right fit for you? For her, for this woman [inaudible 00:12:32] as I said, she’s very successful offline but absolutely no presence online. Let’s start with what’s easiest and what we do is like we look and see what she’s doing offline that’s really amazing and we recreate some of that magic online. For instance, she’s going to be putting together like a meditation and music experience as an online experience for her Facebook group so that she can build community and add value with her unique magic. Just how do you translate what you do offline and in online experience? That could be a really fun way to grow your business.

Doug Morneau:                Absolutely, and recognize like you said that the online world is different than offline, so you just can’t take everything that you’ve done offline and your brochures, and just throw them on the web and say, “There, I’m done.” People consume on the web differently, now mostly on a mobile device. This is an example and they don’t want to see a 25-page brochure.

Cindy Schulson:                Yeah, exactly. They want … Yeah, totally. The other thing I want to share about this is like there’s a fine line between sharing what you want to say but we also have to connect the dots with what people want to hear. Let me explain what I mean. When we’re told to create marketing messages and stuff or choose a niche or whatever the case might be, they’ll just say, “Well, you know, just choose a target market, figure out what they want or interview your ideal clients and share what they want.” And that is super important. We have to know what people want but what we have to do is also making sure that we’re putting our perspective on it. We can’t just give people what they want and tell them what they want to hear for two reasons. Number one, we’ll end up sounding just like everybody else.

Doug Morneau:                Yeah, for sure.

Cindy Schulson:                And number two, you’re going to end up attracting maybe clients but they might not really be the right clients for you. So, I much rather have those right clients who you can charge premium prices for when you’re really doing great stuff as opposed to just diluting everything and just trying to reach everybody.

Doug Morneau:                Yeah, I guess in some cases, I have a challenge with the integrity of the messaging because I’ve written a health book that will be out in a month or so and I’ve said, the reality is that TV has programmed everybody that they want a quick fix for weight loss and if they knew the real truth which was eating smart, eating less and getting moving, that could take months or years, people won’t buy that. Everybody wants the quick fix.

What do you do in a situation where the audience wants something that’s really not achievable where there’s a slew of people out there that are flooding the hate, get it today?

Cindy Schulson:                Well, there are different ways you can approach it. There’s never just one answer. One is that you can create a little bit of controversy by just speaking that truth directly. Another approach that you could take is you can connect with what they want which is to lose weight and then in your marketing, you educate them about what they really need to achieve that.

Doug Morneau:                Right, yeah.

Cindy Schulson:                That’s what I typically tend to do is connect with what they want but use that marketing which is so cool in online marketing. That’s what we’re all … Marketing is just about education these days. Connect with what they want in terms of the benefits, the results they want but then in your marketing, really teach them what they need to have in place in order to achieve that.

Doug Morneau:                Right. I mean they may be looking at particular tactics, so I’ll come back to the marketing what you do and they may say, “Hey, I really need to be doing YouTube videos,” and you’re saying, “Hey, you need to have a website to start.”

Cindy Schulson:                It could be. That’s an example, yeah, but some people don’t even need a website. I’ve had lots of clients who go out and get clients and I did the same thing with just a landing page.

Doug Morneau:                Yeah, I did that as an experiment. I set up and ran a company to a pretty significant level with no website for just about two years.

Cindy Schulson:                That’s awesome.

Doug Morneau:                And I keep saying one day I got to get business cards for that company but not yet.

Cindy Schulson:                Oh, I don’t own business cards.

Doug Morneau:                It’s not on my LinkedIn. You can’t find it anywhere. If you don’t know me, you don’t know what the company is. You can’t find it. My clients know how to wire me money and that’s always going to stay.

Cindy Schulson:                Good. That’s funny.

Doug Morneau:                Yeah, I did build a website eventually but then, I’m not sure if that was a useful thing or not.

Cindy Schulson:                Yeah. You don’t need it. It depends. I shouldn’t say you don’t need it. It depends, especially like if you’re going to be doing some corporate stuff and everything and you really need to have that credibility booster, I can see that perhaps. But I don’t know, when I first got started with my business, I started getting clients and I just had a landing page and started getting people on my email list, so that’s definitely an option.

Doug Morneau:                There you go. Yeah, I noticed that on your LinkedIn profile that you’ve got some background in helping people build a list which obviously it still works today. With all the new shiny objects, people still open their emails.

Cindy Schulson:                Oh, gosh, yeah. No, definitely. Definitely, you want to … It kills me like when I meet some like amazing entrepreneurs like I met this woman who built her business by speaking but she did it completely offline and she came to me and she’s like, “Well, Cindy, I wanted to get started online now. I want to earn some of that leveraged income I hear so much about.” I’m like, “Okay, great. What size is your email list?” And she’s like, “I don’t have one.” In all the speaking she did, she wasn’t growing her email list.

Doug Morneau:                Wow.

Cindy Schulson:                Yeah. That’s the thing like whatever kind of marketing you’re doing whether it’s offline or online, you always want to be growing your email list so you can build that relationship with people.

Doug Morneau:                Well, I’ve got speakers as well and what they’ve done is hand in a box of business cards. These are all the people I met for the last 10 years speaking. Some of the dates is not going to be so good.

Cindy Schulson:                Yeah, but they also haven’t really consented to receive your content either.

Doug Morneau:                No, that’s right. Yeah, because that whole world has changed and we won’t get into that but it’s changing. It’s still changing.

Cindy Schulson:                Yeah, can you say GDPR?

Doug Morneau:                No, I don’t want to say that.

Cindy Schulson:                Yeah, exactly.

Doug Morneau:                9 out of 10 emails, people are telling me they’re compliant. I’m going, “So what? How does that add value to my life?” I’m assuming you’re going to be compliant, but anyhow, we won’t … Big topic. So, for listeners, if you’re listening to that, look it up. We’re not going to spend any time talking about it. I’m sure you [inaudible 00:18:38] at your inbox and you’ll see at least a dozen emails explaining what it is.

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To market with heart be authentic and do what feels good for you and the people that you’re reaching

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Cindy Schulson:                Can I just tell a really quick story though just to ease the tension of it?

Doug Morneau:                Sure, go ahead.

Cindy Schulson:                When I was … I worked for Visa and we were working on Y2K. Remember Y2K?

Doug Morneau:                I do.

Cindy Schulson:                So, I was in the communications team and I remember we set up like this sort of war room. And it was like on New Year’s Eve, the strike of midnight. And we were all anticipating all of this craziness. I got one phone call from a reporter, one. So, I think we can just take a deep breath and relax.

Doug Morneau:                Well, I guess one of the messages is that the online world is changing. Facebook and Google and Twitter are coming in with new rules for what content you’re allowed to post and when you’re allowed to post it and what sort of ad you’re allowed to run. The idea that, “Hey, they’re just in there for the money.” It’s like, “No, they’re rejecting ads that don’t meet their criteria.” And I’m not talking about weird stuff. I’m talking about some really mainstream stuff that’s happening in the world where they’re just saying that the policies are changing.

Cindy Schulson:                No, there’s a lot of all that. I really pity anybody who teaches social media because you can’t have any evergreen content because it changes every five minutes. It’s a whole other world and I don’t even bother with all that. Like you said, I have a really good social media presence and stuff. I just set it up and I automate a few things but I don’t spend a ton of time on social media other than managing my groups for the programs I run. I work for my free Facebook group but honestly, it’s such a distraction for so many people. You don’t need to spend hours on social media to grow a successful business.

Doug Morneau:                Well then, what would I do with my time when I have to phone my customers and talk to them? I can tell people I’m working because I’m updating my social media posts.

Cindy Schulson:                Oh, my goodness. For me, it’s like my main strategies are speaking and joint ventures, like that’s how you can reach so many more people than just that one little tweet.

Doug Morneau:                Absolutely. And now, you’re doing podcast interviews, which is giving you another audience, which is just a different form of speaking you do. Well, you said to stay home and when I sent you my picture today, I just literally left the gym. So, that’s why I don’t always do video.

Cindy Schulson:                Yeah. No, that’s fine and I’ve gotten over the whole video thing. I do Facebook lives every week for my Facebook group and I’m just like, “You know what? They don’t care what I look like. They just want to hear what I have to say.” It’s good.

Doug Morneau:                I attended a great Facebook Live. I just can’t remember who it was and the lady that was running it had a glass of wine.

Cindy Schulson:                Oh, I love it.

Doug Morneau:                It was something like Marketing Wine Wednesdays or something and she just had this sloshing back this big glass of wine. I went, “I can relate to this. Let me get a glass of wine and I’ll come back.”

Cindy Schulson:                So, it’s happy hour time. Turn your Facebook lives into happy hour. I like that.

Doug Morneau:                There you go, absolutely. What are you excited about today as it relates to marketing and messaging and branding and the stuff that you’re doing in the next 6, 8 to 12 months?

Cindy Schulson:                Well, I’m actually really excited. I did this thing a few months ago and I decided to redo it. It’s called the Marketing with Heart Workshop Series. Basically, I have like my own little … I call it the client journey. That’s the journey you take with your clients and the results they get at each step. I have my own. It’s called Marketing with Heart System and there are three steps: Clarify your message, share your message, monetize your message. And I really thought about how can I help more people just simplify and streamline their marketing, take them through these three steps but make it interactive. Make it a way for them to not just like sit there and listen to me talk but actually get engaged, do some activities, get live coaching.

I created this workshop series. We meet every day for three days. There’s training. There’s question time. There’s coaching time. There’s an assignment and it really gets people results. I did that a few months ago. I’m doing it again and it’s just a way of like my way of giving back and there’s nothing for sale. The people all want to speak with me about how I can support them with their business. They can certainly inquire about that. But it’s a really … That’s what I want people to do, is think about how can you educate people and make meaningful connections with people through your marketing. And that’s it, like just simplify all that. And you’ll find creative vehicles to do that. It doesn’t matter if it’s an online challenge or a workshop series or Facebook Lives. Those are the vehicles. What’s most important is what is the action I want people to take and how can I share some really meaningful, not just content but create an experience.

Doug Morneau:                That’s a really cool approach. You’re right because so much of what we’re doing in marketing these days is around education. And I think it’s sometimes tough for people to accept that you can’t always be sending a sales message selling stuff. In your case, you’re going to bring people value. They’re going to see a result and just common sense would tell you that if this is what I get for free, imagine how good it is if I hire you to do the work.

Cindy Schulson:                Absolutely. That’s the whole thing to me. It’s like if we can lay out, like we don’t have to like tease people, like give them a little sample and say, “If you want a really good stuff, just like here’s my system.” That’s why I think having a client journey is so important and being able to communicate that, so just show people that client journey. In fact, if you go to my website on my coaching page, I lay out the client journey right there for you.      And I think when you can have a visual representation of it, it’s so powerful. So, that’s another thing I do with my clients but yeah when you can just like take them through it and create like a connection with people where they can actually participate in something. It’s so much more fun for me too.

Doug Morneau:                That’s really cool. What advice would you give our listeners who are sitting back listening saying, “Hey, I hear this but I kind of heard people talk about coaching and training and messaging before and I haven’t been able to pull the trigger.” What would you suggest they do?

Cindy Schulson:                Well, figure out where you’re stuck. I’m not sure what you mean by pull the trigger. I always hear people say, “Well, this isn’t working, so I’m going to try this.” But you have to diagnose it, like where is the problem? Is it the wrong niche? Is it that your message isn’t effective? Isn’t that you don’t have a good copy on your website? Do you have a sucky giveaway on your website so you’re not growing your list?

Doug Morneau:                Sucky giveaway, that’s good. I like that.

Cindy Schulson:                Yeah, you have got to diagnose the problem. And I think that’s the thing, we just sort of like sort of say, “Oh, this isn’t working,” so we go on to the next thing without diagnosing what’s really not working so we can … My whole motto in business is built on success. I’ll do something, keep it simple and then I’ll see what worked, what didn’t work, build on success and keep improving it instead of like trying five million different things and running around in circles. The first step is to figure out where things are broken and then fix it and improve.

Doug Morneau:                Well, and I think I really like your discipline. You’re really clear about, “Hey, yes, I’m on social but I don’t spend a lot of time there.” And so, other people might say, “Well, that’s where I get my referrals,” but you’re clear on where you get your customers and how you serve your customers and what you’ve got to offer them whether it’s a trial or a paid service or products. Listeners, I think there are some really good tips there on look at all those stuff that you’re doing and then really look at what’s driving the results. What’s making your phone ring or what’s making your credit card processor ding every time you get a new sale and do more of that.

Cindy Schulson:                Absolutely. Sometimes we try to force fit a solution so I have like an evergreen webinar that I have for a messaging program that I sell and I spent … I can tell you how many people I hired to help me with this bloody evergreen webinar. And it was a good webinar and it converts. But I was like, “Oh, it’s got to be better or something,” and I put all this time and effort into it and it’s a $500 program. Why am I doing that and I finally … Because like that was the bright shiny object. That was the, “Oh, you got to have an evergreen webinar.” And so, I learned. It’s like, “Okay, hang on. Am I getting a lot of pleasure out of this? Is this really profitable?” And I finally took that step back and I’m like, “You know what? I’m just going to put that on the shelf for now. It’s part of my funnel but I’m not going to really focus on it. How can I make a bigger difference? How can I have more fun and how can I be more profitable?” Like that’s it. That was not the answer. The evergreen marketing was not the answer for me.

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To market with heart be authentic and do what feels good for you and the people that you’re reaching

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Doug Morneau:                That’s great advice as well and there’s lots of gurus and lots of consultants and lots of experts selling stuff that’s worked for them but it really needs to fit with, like you said, what’s your … Who are you authentically and does it fit with our personality, your style and how you like to work? Like you said, I’m selling a $500 item, does that fit with the income goals you need to sell? How many of those do you need to sell to make your income goals?

Cindy Schulson:                Right, exactly. I have another motto in business which is “Learn from others, trust yourself.” I will learn. I totally like Steve Olsher teaches podcasting. I’m learning from him. I bought his program. I’m always learning and investing in myself but when it comes down to saying, “Okay, is this really the right fit for me?” I got to trust myself about is this how I want to show up? Like every mentor I’ve ever hired has told me that I’m insane because I include private coaching in every program I offer, every program. And yet, I still do it because to me that’s the way people get the best results. Now, obviously, they don’t get as much of my private time in the lower-end programs but I still like that’s kind of one of the things that I stand on, I stand for in my business.

Doug Morneau:                Well, and I think somebody at that session when we’re down in San Diego asked the question, “What one or two options can you take that even when you’re tired and you don’t feel like doing anything give you energy and make you feel more energetic and happier?” As entrepreneurs, we got into starting our own business for a reason. If we’re miserable, maybe we need to take a look and say, “What gives me energy?” And I’m like you. I like the coaching. I like speaking. I like being on panels because that regardless of how tired I am fills me up and I know what’s good value for the people that are listening.

Cindy Schulson:                Oh, that’s it. You nailed it exactly. Yeah, win-win, right?

Doug Morneau:                There you go, absolutely.

Cindy Schulson:                Yeah, exactly. Like listen, I had a great career in corporate. I really did and even though I come from three generations of entrepreneurs, I went corporate for years and years until I had my family in my late 30s. I gave that up because I wanted to be with my kids and I really knew like I don’t want to build a business that takes over my entire life. That’s not why I’m doing this.

Doug Morneau:                Yeah, we did talk about that briefly before we started recording about sometimes client expectations that you work seven days a week, 24 hours a day. It’s like, “No, that’s not why I started the business. I started it because I wanted time leverage to hang out with my kids and my grandkids. And when they come and visit in the middle of the day, you can just go hang out with them and go do whatever.”

Cindy Schulson:                Yeah, exactly. That’s the thing, we have to … That’s why focusing on the right activity is so important and when we start getting distracted by the bright shiny objects, and I can’t tell you how many people … This is one of the things that kills me, how many people invest in all these programs that they’re not ready to implement. And because they’re missing the strategic foundation and that sort of what drives me in my business as well. It’s like I want to help you take full advantage of everything you’ve already invested in but you can’t do that yet because you’re not clear on these pieces. You’re not clear who the right people are. You’re not clear on what that solution is. You’re not clear how to communicate your message. You don’t have good copy on your website. You don’t have a good landing page with a good giveaway. Let’s get that foundational stuff your client journey, that’s the foundation. And then you can start taking advantage of all those great investments you’ve made because you’ll be set up.

Doug Morneau:                Well, you might be able to use that exercise and I’m assuming that once you’ve built that out as a gauge, what activities or what technology or what tactics to use because they might not fit. Once you know who your audience is as an example, if your audience is not on social or is not at events or whatever fill in the blank where they are, you can cross some stuff off your list.

Cindy Schulson:                That’s a great point. Yeah, exactly. I look at list building like I talked about slow and steady, and the fast and the furious. It’s like choosing one slow and steady, and then one fast and furious because so many people do the slow and steady like social media to me is slow and steady. It will build but it will take time and then they go, “Oh, this isn’t working.” Well, it’s a trickle. You’re not going to get this huge buzz at a social media unless you’re Gary V or whatever.

Doug Morneau:                Yeah, you’re right. It’s a long game and needs to fit what you’re doing.

Cindy Schulson:                Yeah. Whereas speaking to your audience, man, like I’m just reaching millions of people at once. This is awesome.

Doug Morneau:                Well, I’m not sure about millions but thank you for …

Cindy Schulson:                I’m just teasing you.

Doug Morneau:                What’s the best place for people to connect with you?

Cindy Schulson:                Just my website probably is a good place to go. It’s just marketingfromwithin.com and I’ve got a whole page called Free so they can choose all these free resources that I have. If they want to speak with me directly and they already know like, “Hey I really want to talk to her,” just go to talkwithcindy.com and you can fill out a quick form and we’ll set up a chance to talk.

Doug Morneau:                Well, super cool. Hey, thanks so much for sharing your knowledge today. I think it was really a lot of value and very insightful. Listeners, I think there’s a ton of information to take away from today’s episode. As usual, we’ll transcribe all the show notes so you can go back and you can reference them. I’ll make sure that I’ve got all the contact information from Cindy and as she said, focus on contacting her through her website probably more than social but I’m happy to share those links as well. Just a couple of questions before we wrap up today and this is my toughest guest question you probably heard me ask before and that’s who’s one guest that you think I have to have on the show.

Cindy Schulson:                Oh, let’s think for a sec. actually, I don’t know if I ever heard you ask that. Well, of course, you already got to have Steve on it. I’ll tell you what. One of my favorite friends who I met years ago at events who I’ve stayed in touch with. Her name is Lisa Bloom and she’s a story coach. And one of the reasons you want to have her on is because storytelling is such an important way of getting your message out there but she tells great stories.

Doug Morneau:                Well, there we go. We’ll have to make sure we reach out to Lisa and get her on the show because you’re right. You don’t have to go very far these days and everyone is talking to tell your story, tell your story, tell your story. It’d be great to figure out how to do that.

Cindy Schulson:                Yeah. She’s great and she has a beautiful accent that will just mesmerize you too.

Doug Morneau:                What’s one tactic or approach that you see people in the marketplace giving the wrong advice on?

Cindy Schulson:                I think we’ve talked about a lot of those. The tactics, that’s the problem, getting into tactics before they know the strategy.

Doug Morneau:                There you go.

Cindy Schulson:                Yeah.

Doug Morneau:                Strategy first.

Cindy Schulson:                Yeah.

Doug Morneau:                Well, thanks again for sharing. We’ll make sure we get all your stuff transcribed to get it up on our blog, and we’ll be happy to share that out. So, there you go, listeners. This is another episode of Real Marketing Real Fast and here is just an example of investing in yourself. Cindy and I met at an event in San Diego where we both invested some time and some money to get there and to meet some like-minded people to learn and to build relationships and grow our business. Make sure that you tune in to our next episode if you have not subscribed on iTunes, don’t be shy to subscribe. And if you want to send us a comment back in our blog, feel free to do that. Thanks so much, Cindy, and have an awesome rest of the day.

Cindy Schulson:                Thanks so much.

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To market with heart be authentic and do what feels good for you and the people that you’re reaching

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"Innovation isn't just thinking outside the box; it's about setting the box on fire and building something extraordinary from the ashes."

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