Tips on how to prospect and sell from Jim Padilla

• I think everybody is part of the sales process. The problem is most people don’t know that.
• Sales are more about understanding your audience than it is the actual transaction size.
• Sell them your product only if it fits because we don’t ever want to compromise the experience for the sake of the sale.
• We don’t work a ton on scripts… The thing that we find for most people is you’re so focused on following the script that you’re not following your instincts.
• I’m constantly focused on what their thought process is. What’s the strategy they’re using to try to move this person into some clarity to make a great decision?
• We’re really clear about who we serve. We have a strong red velvet rope process and we don’t let people in who don’t cross that.
• You should only be selling to people who are fully converted on the concept that they must do something about their problem.
• Anytime somebody says, “This is how you have to do it,” you’re already wrong because, in today’s marketplace, there are a billion ways to do it.

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Doug: Well, welcome back, listeners, to another episode of Real Marketing Real Fast. Today I think you’re going to be in for a real treat because we’re going to talk about something that is super important for anybody listening who’s running a business and that is sales. Without sales, we don’t have a business. My guest today is Jim Padilla.

I met Jim at an event in San Diego. We hit it off. We had a couple of dinners together and had some great conversation as he shared his love for sales and how he helps his clients to achieve their sales and marketing goals. Jim is a master sales trainer. He’s an expert team builder and a launch expert. He has more than 30 years experience building teams and leading them to success. He’s built a solid track record of achieving results. More than that, Jim is … as part of his launch work, he has worked with and shared the stage with people like Jay Abraham and Les Brown. He brings an exceptional level of experience and talent to the world of sales. I am super excited to call him a friend, have him on the podcast, as he’s also a new podcaster. Welcome to the Real Marketing Real Fast Podcast.

Jim Padilla: Hey Doug. Thanks for having me. Super excited to be here.

Doug: I’m excited to talk about sales because I’ve often said that everybody in your organization should be in sales, whether that’s the server at your restaurant or whatever it is, that you really need to be an ambassador of your brand and selling. Let’s open up the conversation and why don’t you give me a little bit of background and share with our listeners a little bit about what you do and how you do it.

Jim Padilla: Yeah. I definitely appreciate that perspective. I think everybody is part of the sales process. The problem is most people don’t know that. It’s a lot of open loops left out there. We have two primary arms of our company. The one we’re known for most is outsourced sales specialists. We serve our clients who are coaches, consultants, and executives that are in a scaling mode. We provide outsource sales teams for online launches, for back-of-the-room sales at conferences and seminars and selling events, and for people who are selling high-ticket masterminds that require a deal of strategy and tactics and professionalism. Then, of course, we teach people how to train their teams. We do sales training, but that’s what we’re known for the most.

It’s a fun and equally challenging because every single client we work with is different and nuanced. Our real strength is, the secret sauce in us, is that we have the ability to blend in and assimilate to everybody’s environment so that when we work for you and we represent your brand, we’re not just a bullpen selling widgets. We literally dive into your world and we assimilate to your brand. We provide a branded, seamless experience for your clients.

Doug: For somebody listening who are saying, “Hey. I’m … my business is already running. I already have some success, but I really want to step it up and I’m really not sure that I want to have more office space or hire remote staff or train staff or manage a sales team. It sounds a bit scary to outsource your sales.” What are some of the myths, or what are some of the concerns that people may have as they’re thinking about, “Is this really a way that I could scale my business?”

Jim Padilla: Yeah. Absolutely it’s scary. It should be. If it’s not scary then you probably don’t care all that much about your clients. Some of the things to think about is with a third-party provider is that “Do we actually have the bandwidth to be able to dive into your world and know your clients as well as you do?” That’s a legitimate concern and that’s the stuff that we do. We actually … we have lots of strategies. We spend full-time training on … behind the walls here. We have systems in place for making that happen. Another is, and a very real, legitimate concern, is when you have a company that represents other companies, how can you be sure that we won’t take your lead and sell it, or sell somebody else’s product? That’s a legitimate concern. Again, in this case, it’s really about integrity and reputation as we are a service-based company and literally the only thing that we own is our name. I can’t afford … there’s no client, there’s no sale, there’s no conversion out there that is worth me losing my reputation and my ability to grow my business and my platform.

Doug: Having spent some time with you, I definitely have that comfort level with you. That really came out during our conversation really quickly that you had a high level of integrity and respect for your clients and what they’re trying to achieve. What is kind of the steps that people would take as they’re trying to scale up? If I’ve got an e-commerce business and I’m selling a higher ticket item, let’s start with the first thing. What’s a higher ticket item? What do you call a higher ticket?

Jim Padilla: The Higher ticket is a very … it’s getting to be a very overused term in the industry right now. It can mean a lot of different things. For us, it typically means $5K and above as a starting point because that’s the place where most people start to have a challenge with personal sales conversations. The other part of that is that that’s where people start to wonder if they can actually deliver a value at a point in that level, especially if you’re dealing with a service. We sell things all the way up to $100K and beyond, so there’s no high ticket price point for us that’s a challenge.

The challenge for … that a lot of people come across is trying to have one person be a jack-of-all-trades. We’ve actually come to the point where we have specialists. We have people on our team that sell thousand dollar products and that’s all they sell. They sell thousand and two thousand dollar products on launches because we’re selling maybe 100 of them or 500 of them in a week. Then, we have other people on our team that sell $5000 to $15,000. We have other people on our team that doesn’t even get into the conversation until it’s $25K or above. We keep people at the place where they excel, where they’re most comfortable and where they have the most enjoyment.

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Doug: What do you … where do you think the resistance point is for the consumer? If I’m doing a good job as an online marketer for my particular brand or company I’m working for and I’m generating some leads and I’m generating some interest. I may have an evergreen webinar or whatever the situation is that leads them to a shopping cart, where do you think the resistance is for the dollar point where they need to talk to somebody? Is it the thousand dollars and above? If I go through and I’m not going to spend more than a thousand dollars in a checkout without talking to somebody, or is there a point at which they need to talk to someone?

Jim Padilla: Well, technically, we’ve made sales online without conversations at 25K and more. It’s not an always an either-or situation. Most of the time, if people can make a thousand dollar decision on their own, and even two thousand, there’s plenty of people that can do that. Once you get beyond that, then there’s usually more nuance involved. There is a little bit more buyer tentativeness that they’ll … they just want to have their concerns put at bay, some confidence reassured because for some people, I don’t want to diminish anybody, for some people two thousand dollars isn’t a ton of money and so … for them to invest in something. It’s all relative. It all has a perspective, so it’s really more about understanding your audience than it is the actual transaction size because-

Doug: Sure.

Jim Padilla: Depending on who you’re serving, for some people two thousand is the basement. For others, two thousand is more than they’ve ever spent.

Doug: Yeah. That’s a really fair comment. I’m smiling to myself, obviously, we’re on a podcast, you can’t see that. I’m smiling because you’re right. It really depends on where people are coming from. People who might go out and spend 800 or a thousand dollars on a bottle of wine, spending two thousand dollars for an online program is not going to be a big deal. For a lot of people that may be the most, they’ve ever spent on anything, especially in the online world. Something else came to mind as we were speaking. I’m not an expert in this space and so, one of the things that I have read and seen feedback on a lot of the people selling online courses are things like continuity and return when they offer, say, a money-back-guarantee. Do you have any experience or any feedback you could share with us what that looks like working with someone like you versus doing it solo where they buy online?

Jim Padilla: If I’m getting the question right, you’re talking about the, essentially, attrition possibilities.

Doug: Yeah, attrition or cancellation.

Jim Padilla: Okay. Yeah. The one thing that we do because it’s the only thing we’re doing, is that we actually tend to increase your attrition rate because we’re sold out to make sure that the provider experience is on point. When selling is part of what you’re doing in your business, it’s impossible for you to devote 100% of your attention and focus on it. You tend to squeeze it in the cracks of the rest of your business.

Doug: Sure.

Jim Padilla: If you have … if you’ve got somebody who this is their specialty, then that’s the focus. Of course, we get paid when production comes in and we’d much rather not have a sale than have a sale close and have to refund it later. We’re definitely proponents of doing whatever’s necessary to ensure that you actually have the right person. One of the things that we talk about frequently with our clients, objective number one is for us to provide a branded, quality experience for your potential client. Objective two is to sell them your product only if it fits because we don’t ever want to compromise the experience for the sake of the sale. What happens is we provide these great experiences and if they don’t buy, they’re still in your world to come back to buy later.

Doug: Yep.

Jim Padilla: In the process of doing that we just build great connections and relationships with people and they learn to trust and let down their guard and make quality decisions.

Doug: Well, that makes sense. I’m thinking, now, from wearing the hat of a consumer, if I’m going to have a sales conversation or conversation with somebody on your team for a product I’m considering buying, it sounds like a good thing because I may … you may prevent me from buying something that’s not a fit. When I’m looking at the sales copy and the content and the video or whatever it is that they’re using for the sales process, having that conversation may say, “Hey, based on what you’ve told me, this isn’t a good fit.” Or, “This is a good fit.” I don’t have that immediate buyer’s remorse like, “Did I make a good decision?” Because I feel more comfortable and at ease, with either the purchase I made or the purchase I didn’t make.

Jim Padilla: Yeah. Actually, we have a term that we use that sums that up. We call it “being the gatekeeper of the community.” As our sales teams, we look at ourselves as the gatekeeper of your communities and we’re not letting anybody in who isn’t going to be a great fit and a great contributor, who’s going to thrive in that environment.

Doug: I’m not sure if you’ve heard of or heard Matthew Kimberly speak, but he talks about the red velvet rope-

Jim Padilla: Yes.

Doug: Which is basically the same principle that you’re talking about.

Jim Padilla: Absolutely. A red velvet rope, that’s a process that we use for our own clients, pulling them in the door as well as for our clients that we serve.

Doug: Do you have an experience that you can share with us where you helped somebody, for their first time, move to this type of business model and how it worked out?

Jim Padilla: Sure. We have a client that is … her name’s Elizabeth Purvis and she’s actually on one of our websites with a testimonial. When we first … when she first came to us, she was very smart, she’s extremely smart, one of the smartest people I know. She has a very unique background as an engineer and a comic book artist, which is not a combination you usually find.

Doug: No.

Jim Padilla: She’s very creative and extremely methodical, which is very rare. She was able to get her business to a million dollars of revenue on her own, but she was maxed out. She was running sales. She couldn’t do any more by herself. Working with us, she learned to be able to trust. It’s really not about trusting us, it’s more about trusting your own instincts as a leader, that you’ve pulled the right people around you and then surrendering. Over the course of the next year, we were able to double her revenue and bring her to two million. That was simply by us being able to run more conversations, us being able to get more leverage than what she could. You can get more out of … she could be on a call to potentially enroll a client for an hour, or she can be on a call with our team helping to make sure our team digests her voice and her mission and her message and get a whole lot more reach from that same hour. That’s what we teach the clients.

The other part of it that is really important is if you’re the one doing the sales, you have to understand that nobody is usually going to sell and close and convert as well as you. Right?

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Doug: Yeah.

Jim Padilla: You know your product.

Doug: Sure.

Jim Padilla: You know your client. You know where the bodies are buried. You know what exceptions you’ll make. You know what negotiating you can do. Your clinker team doesn’t know that stuff. They know what they’re allowed to sell.

Doug: Right.

Jim Padilla: You can’t ever say, “Well I convert at 80%. How come they’re converting at 40%?” Because they’re not you. It’s the facts of the matter. You have to be able to … now you can focus on what happens for the people who say, “No,” so that we keep them in your world longer so that they’re ready to buy later. It just starts growing exponentially.

Doug: Then you can focus on the people who say, “Yes,” too-

Jim Padilla: Exactly.

Doug: Make sure that you exceed their expectations and they stay in your world longer and tell their friends.

Jim Padilla: Amen.

Doug: Yeah. I’m thinking … you said that and I’m thinking there’s probably … there’s not a fit, obviously, for every situation depending on what you’re selling. In that specific example, how much more time was required for her to … for Elizabeth to double her sales?

Jim Padilla: You know, it’s interesting ‘because –

Doug: For her point of view-

Jim Padilla: Yeah.

Doug: Did she have to spend 10% more or five percent more or actually less time?

Jim Padilla: I would say for the first duration, first quarter, first few months, she probably spent the same amount of time as she was already spending on sales previously. She just now transferred that time to watching numbers and worrying and stressing, “Are they taking care of my people?” There’s legitimate thought around that and micromanaging the process, “Hey. How’d it gone with this person? How’d it go with that person?” She was swapping tasks and probably spending the same amount of time. Once she started learning what we do, building a relationship with us, trusting the process, she’s able to back off more and more to the point where, now, we just have regular conversations. She works on some things, but now it’s a fraction of her time is spent worrying about sales because sales just happen.

Doug: Well it’s interesting you’re saying that you’re working with people who already have grown their business to a certain point. To me and that tells me right up front that they already understand how important sales are because they’re making them. Often when I talk to people who are struggling or come to me saying, “Hey, I need some marketing.” I ask them kind of what their sales process is and very quickly figured out that they’re trying everything except having a conversation with somebody because they’re desperately afraid to speak to people-

Jim Padilla: Yes.

Doug: I’m thinking that in that case, they’re going to need … they need training because they still need to get some sales because they’re going to have to pay their bills and ramp up their business.

Jim Padilla: Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. That’s something that we work on a lot because obviously, we spend our … a lot of time training and developing our team and helping them to be as fine-tuned as humanly possible. We bring that same thing to the public. We work with salespeople and entrepreneurs who are having conversations to increase their conversions. We don’t work a ton on scripts. Our whole … my podcast is called Sales Unscripted. Our sales training is called Sales Unscripted. I don’t believe that the script is “the end all be all.” I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with a script and I can hear people already shaking their fists at me right now. It’s … scripts serve a purpose. They’re there to keep you on track. They’re there to keep … they’re there to make sure that you have something to fall back on and you don’t forget certain things to say.

The thing that we find for most people is you’re so focused on following the script that you’re not following your instincts. You’re not following your passion. You’re not showing up saying the things that you know you should just because you already understand your clients. You understand their needs, their concerns, their pains, their struggles, and if you would just talk to them like you talk to a normal person in a normal conversation, you would have fantastic dialogue. People would trust you and they would trust themselves around you, more importantly, and they would let down their guards. I can tell you this without question. This is not an exaggeration. People show up on my calendar every week and we don’t market. We have very … I’m not … we have very little effort spent on marketing. I can’t even say that.

Doug: Yeah.

Jim Padilla: We do a lot more organic reach. I do marketing via my podcast.

Doug: Sure.

Jim Padilla: I speak on stages around but we don’t have all these funnels pulling cold traffic in. We have a warm market of clients who are served, who recommend us. I deliver a lot of value to the marketplace.

Doug: Yeah.

Jim Padilla: I serve and help as many people as I can. We’re known as experts, so people show up on my calendar and the conversation is usually something like, “Hey. How can you help me? How do I work with you?” I literally don’t ever have to lay out an offer, a strategic offer. They just … I tell them, “This is what we could do for you if that makes sense.” Then they say, “Oh. How do I pay you?” I can assure you that’s … can happen for you if you’re really focused on structuring your network the right way.

Doug: I mean, you’ve made it very hard to argue the point of using a script, but I want to take a shot at it anyhow. I’m a marketing guy so I’ve got the creative side. I’m definitely not an engineer, but I do have an analytical side. One of the reasons that I have leaned towards not necessarily a script, but at least some talking points, is for measurement. I’m trying to figure out which is the best way to engage with somebody which … what’s working best? Don’t you find, if you had a team of people and there was no script and everybody was just kind of free-wheeling that there’s really no way to say, “Hey? How come this guy is selling more than that guy?”

Jim Padilla: Yeah. Great question. We actually … we record every single call that we have in our company and that’s thousands of them. We do about 25 thousand conversations a year. We audit them. We review them. Our team audits them. We role-play scenarios. Every single campaign that they’re on, we actually … we do something called the stage selling, but not like a lot of people talk about selling from one stage to the next-

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Doug: Yep.

Jim Padilla: We focus on what stage of need and desire are you in-

Doug: Okay. Yep.

Jim Padilla: That for this offering. Based on that, what are the typical problems you’re going to have and what are the questions that we can ask that can elicit those and demonstrate that we know how to solve them?

Doug: Right. So you’re trying to handle the objections in advance.

Jim Padilla: Correct.

Doug; So there is sharing within the team-

Jim Padilla: Absolutely.

Doug: Environment. There’s … it’s not like you’re flying blind where people are trying to go, “Well, I’ve never had that question before.”

Jim Padilla: Yeah. It’s really cool because we’ve set up an environment where the team determines the best practices and what works. I provide the framework, but I don’t tell them what to say. I don’t tell them what to do. I’m constantly focused on what their thought process is. What’s the strategy they’re using to try to move this person into some clarity to make a great decision? Where you don’t … we don’t usually get into, “Well, I should’ve said this and say this,” because there are a billion things you could say. I don’t care about that. I want to know you already know what to say if your brain is in the right place, if your heart is in the right place and this person is moving through your process as expected, then now you can just have a normal conversation. You already know the right words that’ll come out.

It really comes down to being crystal clear on understanding their need or the stage of need and desire. We use a waterfall for that example. Basically on the waterfall … we can unpack this at length, but the quick overview is if you’re floating down a river, there are several stages you can be in. You can be floating, literally, with no current and you have no idea that there’s anything coming. You can beat the rapids, which lets you know that the falls are potentially around the corner. You could be at the waterfall and in peril and freaking out and getting ready to go over. You could be at the bottom of the waterfall in devastation and ruin. You could be in the smooth waters beyond devastation now thinking about, “How do I rebuild?”

The problem that most people have and I see this every single day, Doug, most people are completely unaware of what stage they’re in. You’re talking to somebody who is potentially going over a waterfall. They’re in crisis stage and you’re trying to sell them as if they’re on a flat … on a smooth surface. They don’t need a lecture. They need a freaking rope, right?

Doug: That’s right. Yeah.

Jim Padilla: That’s a difficult conversation. Then you come back and you start going, “Well, I was saying the wrong things. I have to change the formula. I have to change …” No. You just need to be moving a little further upstream based on who you’re designed to serve.

Doug: And where they’re at. Yeah.

Jim Padilla: Right. If you’re not a crisis manager … if you’re not a crisis operator, you probably shouldn’t be marketing for people who are about ready to go over a cliff. The problem is, those are the easiest people to find, so that’s why most people market to them.

Doug: I mean, there are two sides to that. Okay, I understand the waterfall and I’ve definitely been there and I’ve seen people there, but there’s also the other side and I don’t mean this to sound like a negative Nelly, but the reality is I’ve … we’ve worked with people long enough to know that not everybody tells you the truth-

Jim Padilla: Right.

Doug: So you ask them where they are and how things are and how they’re going. What they really need to say is, “I haven’t paid my rent on my store and I’ve got 45 days before the bailiff comes in, so I need to generate a whack of sales today to keep the doors open,” not, “Things are fine. I would like to set up a long-term campaign.” How do you dig that out from people that you’re talking to find out where they’re really out.

Jim Padilla: Yeah. Great question. It is tough, as they say, buyers are liars. That’s been around for ages because it’s true. People buy … lie for a lot of reasons, their lack of knowledge and their lack of willingness to tell the truth because they’re embarrassed-

Doug: Yeah, just ego sometimes, right?

Jim Padilla: Totally.

Doug: You don’t want to admit, “Hey I made some mistakes and this is where I’m at,” but if you tell me that, then, as you said, I could throw you the rope. I could say, “Here’s what we can do immediately to generate cash.”

Jim Padilla: Right.

Doug: Is it good for the long-term business? No, but is it good to keep you open so we can work on the next stage? Yes.

Jim Padilla: See now here’s … this is where having … needing a script comes into play in situations like that because you’re going to have a difficult conversation because you have to dig to get to the truth in somebody like that. Well, when you have somebody with your intelligence and with mine, and many of the listeners I’m sure, now instead of asking those questions, you’re the expert. You have a really good understanding of what are the scenarios in which those people are actually experiencing as they’re about to head over the cliff. You can market to that scenario and then you don’t even have to ask the question because by the very nature of the fact that they responded to your marketing says, “I’m struggling and I’m freaking out and I’m about to go over the cliff and lose my business.”

Doug; Yep.

Jim Padilla: It requires a greater level of responsibility on your part as the marketer because of you … that’s why you have to get really crystal clear about the stage of need. It’s from two perspectives, what’s the … what is the stage of need and desire that you are most equipped to serve? As I said, if you’re not a crisis operator, if you don’t do well in those environments, don’t freaking market to those people.

Doug: That’s right.

Jim Padilla: Then, get really clear about who those people are and where they are. It could be the very same client just six months sooner or six months later, you understand that?

Doug: Yeah.

Jim Padilla: That’s all going to depend on you.

Doug: Yeah. Although, I think really often entrepreneurs and business people, probably less in the sales role if you’re working for a company, is that we don’t want to miss or lose a sale so we cast our net wider than we should and we either take clients that we shouldn’t or we serve markets that we shouldn’t be in just because we don’t want to niche down and work in that sweet spot where we really are the expert.

Jim Padilla: Yeah. I was interviewing somebody on my podcast earlier today. We were talking about something similar. She said, “Duplication has been worn out.” She said, “The only thing that sells now is authenticity.” The most authentic people, the most … the people who are most clear about who they are and who they serve, they don’t have to cast a wide net. They can just drop the line in the right place and all of those people, all of the right fish come and bite and then they also go tell all the other fish that they know who are more inclined to serve, which is again, it’s a lot of the life I live.

I get referrals … I get more referrals than most people you probably meet. I’m fully blessed. It’s as much a God thing as it is me. It’s because we’re really clear about who we serve. We have a strong red velvet rope process and we don’t let people in who don’t cross that. It’s not worth it to cast a wider net if it’s going to cost you time, effort, and energy in terms of how you’re going to serve them and how … if those are the people you’re not going to serve well, that means they’re going to leave, your attrition is there, you’re … I love being able to get results for people. I hate when they can’t get results. I also know that’s not always my fault, but ultimately if I don’t bring the right people in, to begin with then I also have to put more effort and energy in providing a better result, whereas when I find the right person who’s really geared to work with us, I don’t even have to do as much of the work because these guys are doing … they’re motivated. They’re doing the work because we’ve found the right person.

Doug; Yeah. It’s … that’s just a natural. It’s just a good fit.

Jim Padilla: Yes.

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Doug; Looking at some of the clients you’ve worked with, I know this is a general question but I ask it anyhow and that is, how are your clients generally creating leads so you have conversations?

Jim Padilla: Man. There’s a lot of experimentation going on. There … Facebook traffic is still the banner of the day that everybody’s flying. A lot of testing in terms of where they’re dropping their lines and there’s a lot of testing in terms of length of time in a sequence. Are we moving people through a three-day sequence? Through a seven-day sequence? Through a 30-day sequence? What are the results of that? How much … we really try to focus on what kind of behavior-driven activities as opposed to even length of time. If we can give somebody … we don’t want to talk necessarily to somebody who’s just downloaded a PDF because that doesn’t really express commitment or interest, right?

Doug: No. No. I’ve given you my email. That’s as far as I’ve gone. I’m not sold yet. I’m not ready to give you my credit card.

Jim Padilla: Exactly. We actually … we use a term that I stole from Angelique Rivers, who is a corporate agent. She’d be a great interview for you also. She talks about selling to the converted. You should only be selling to people who are fully converted on the concept that they must do something about their problem. If they haven’t demonstrated that they are converted to the concept, that they must do something about this, they’re not a person you should be talking with right now. There’s somebody that should be … you should be warming in the oven.

Doug: Okay. Let’s just push pause just for a sec. When you’re saying “fully converted,” just so we’re clear on what you’re saying, you’re not saying converted on you. You’re saying they have made a decision. They now fully realize that they must make a change.

Jim Padilla; Yes. Yes. That’s … we talk about being committed to solve the problem. You shouldn’t be offering anything to anybody who hasn’t demonstrated a commitment to wanting to do something about their situation. Now you’re having to convince, right?

Doug: Yeah.

Jim Padilla: If it’s a one-on-one-

Doug: Life’s way too short for that.

Jim Padilla: Exactly. I don’t have interest in that. It makes it more challenging in a corporate setting because usually there are more decision makers. You now have to get all of the stakeholders involved so that you know … you have to determine for your niche, your industry, what are the key triggers that will let you know their team is fully converted, that what they’re doing doesn’t work anymore and they need a new path.

Doug: Yeah.

Jim Padilla: That’s when you should be intersecting. With an individual, it’s a little easier because you only have one person making that decision, so you just have to look through what are the typical behaviors and triggers that lead to that behavior that will demonstrate that this person is committed to wanting to do something about the problem.

Doug: That’s a great point. I just made a note of that. I will … I’m going to take a look at what we’re doing to see if I’m following that advice because I’ve been in conversations with people who have said, “Hey. I need to make a change, so what would you prescribe?” We would make a proposal and they’d go, “Well, we’ve never done that.” My response would be, not sarcastically, “So, how’s what you’re doing working?” “Well, it’s not working.” “Well, here’s an option.” “Well, we’ve never done that,” so how long are we going to have this conversation back and forth. There’s an example of someone who’s not committed. They want a solution, but they want it to look like what they’re already doing.

Jim Padilla: Exactly. Exactly. That’s where we have to circle back, say, “Look. Here’s what it looks like. Here’s what you’ve said. Basically, this is what you’ve been saying, but it’s not … your actions are demonstrating something different, so which direction would you like to go?”

Doug; Yep. “We’re not a fit. Thanks very much. I wish you well and have a great day.”

Jim Padilla: Yep.

Doug: What are you most excited about in the next six to twelve months?

Jim Padilla: Wow. I’m super pumped about the podcast growing and reaching a lot greater community. I’m having tremendous success with it and an absolute blast with it. Looking for interviewing people who are doing events, who are promoting lunches, who have something you want to promote and get out there, or if you just want to talk high-level conversion and sales skills and leverage strategies. We are … we’re really pushing out the Sales Unscripted brand, which is more geared … we definitely have the outsourcing piece. That’s always going to be there, but this is more geared towards people who are wanting training, who are tired of trying to force a script down their teams’ throat, tired of trying to babysit people and tell them what to say and start focusing on showing people who’s the person they need to be in the conversation that will lead to powerful success and conversions. That’s really what’s on tap for us right now is motivating the Sales Unscripted brand.

Doug: That’s really cool. I was so excited to see that you were launching your podcast and that’s up and running and happy to listen to some episodes. It’s really cool and we’ll continue to do that. What’s some of the bad advice that you hear out there?

Jim Padilla: Man. Some of the stuff we hit on already, too, cast a wide blanket. I actually heard somebody, a colleague I won’t name because there’s a good chance he could hear this show, but he’s a high-level Facebook traffic guy. He works with pretty high-end clients. He said on a mastermind call one time, “Let’s just capture what buys in the front and f the rest.” I was like, “All he’s concerned with is driving Facebook traffic people through to a webinar into a sale. That is a great way to beat the crap outta your salespeople because yes, they’re going to convert and make sales, but you’re expecting them to have tons of conversations and sift through all the garbage that you pull through the funnel. You can’t do that.”

Doug: Yeah.

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Jim Padilla: Same thing with outbound dialing. I’m not an opponent of outbound dialing. In the year 2018, outbound dialing without, we call it behavior-based outbound dialing, meaning if they’re … your clients, your potential clients have tripped the wire on several behaviors that have demonstrated they are willing and absolutely want to talk and want to do something about moving forward, then and only then will we outbound dial for them. Today, 88% of the calls that you make go straight to a voicemail. Of the 12 people, the 12% that will answer the phone, 90% of them are not ready to talk to you right now. You can’t control the environment. You caught them on the phone while they’re driving or they’re at their kid’s soccer practice or they’re making spaghetti. Right when you’re getting to a critical part of the conversation, they have to go.

Doug: Yep.

Jim Padilla: You can’t do that. If you … if you’re … all you’re doing is primarily setting appointments anyway so you might as well have a better strategy for setting appointments.

Doug: I like the term behavior because it makes sense. One of the guys that I first saw do this in an email was Frank Kern. He’s not too far from where you and I met.

Jim Padilla: Yeah.

Doug: We got to hang out with him for a weekend and he said, “You know when I send out my content,” so for listeners who don’t know who he is, he sends out a lot of really cool content, stuff that I really … I just like his approach, but usually, there’s a … at some point, there’s going to be a video about a topic. If you don’t watch the video, you’re never going to see the sales offer that goes with the problem that he’s trying to solve in that video. That’s the behavior thing. If you haven’t demonstrated that you’re fully committed to making that change, he’s not even going to waste his breath or waste your time or send you an email because it’s going to annoy you. As you said, the timing’s not right.

Jim Padilla: Correct. Then you’re also going to make your salespeople work twice as hard or even 10 times as hard because that person doesn’t have the whole story. They don’t know why they’re showing up for a call.

Doug: Yep. No. I get that and I understand and I’m not a huge fan of outbound calling, like you said, unless people have said, “Hey. Please call me,” or they’ve shown some sort of action. I’ve had guys that said, “Hey. I just buy the database of all the businesses in this state and we’ll start them calling them,” which is a really horrible idea. It’s a good way to, like you said, totally burn out your staff and waste your time.

Jim Padilla: Yeah. Yeah. It’s a tough place to be. The … here’s the other thing, the piece on that. I actually was just doing this on a post sending it to my team who’s going to put out some posts tomorrow. Here’s the concept that we were talking about is that there is no such thing as always or never, right? Anytime somebody says, “This is how you have to do it,” you’re already wrong because, in today’s marketplace, there are a billion ways to do it.

Doug: Yeah. Yeah.

Jim Padilla: Many of them are good and all of them work at times under certain conditions. You can’t ever say you’ve got the solution. You just have to know the solution for whom, under what conditions, for what type of product, and what amount. Then, it may work tomorrow. Does it only work on weekends? Does it work on Fridays? There are so many variables and you have to be able to ask all of those questions and understand the scenario. You should always be testing everything.

Doug: Yep. No, that’s funny. I got into doing some paper advertising a long, long, long time ago when I had a number of clients saying, “It doesn’t work. It never works for me. I always spend money and never get conversions.” I thought, “Can’t be that difficult.” We give it a try and we closed our first six-figure client after a couple weeks and spending 70 dollars, I went, “I don’t know. Works for me.” Never … I agree. Is not a good term either.

Jim Padilla: No. No.

Doug: Tell me, where the … two questions. I’ll ask you … should I ask you the tough one before or after? You’re probably going to be able to nail the tough one so I’ll go first. Who is one guest I absolutely have to have on my podcast?

Jim Padilla: Well, since I mentioned earlier, I would say Angelique Rivers from The Corporate Agent. I’d gladly make an introduction for you. She’s phenomenal. Her specialty is helping entrepreneurs break out of their coaching space and be able to market to corporations who desperately need our help.

Doug; Yep.

Jim Padilla: She’s somebody that I would highly recommend. Brilliant.

Doug: Cool. Now the easy question, if people like what we’re talking about, where can they hunt you down, find you, track you down, and have a conversation with you?

Jim Padilla: Yeah, appreciate that. The number one is to go to salesunscripted.com. Actually our website there is currently under construction. It should be up by the end of the … well, by the time you hear this, they should be thriving and working. Salesunscripted.com/podcast will get you access to all of our podcast shows as well as all of our social media and reach out and connect. What I would like to give an offer. We’ve just created a drop-in coaching group. It’s a Facebook membership group. It’s $47 a month. First of all, if you can’t get a return on your $47 of investment, then you shouldn’t be selling anymore or I’m really bad at what I do. We … if you go to our podcasts, rate and review an episode, then go to salesunscripted.com/getmore- We’ll give you a free month of membership to our group. You can drop in, ask any kind of questions you want, I and my team are there. It’s a chance to get a feel for how we work and plus you may not be wanting to drop thousands of dollars on a coaching program but you want to get some kind of support. It’s a good way to be able to get a little help and get a community.

Doug: That’s super cool. Hey, thanks so much for taking time today. I’m super happy to see you grow in your podcast and following what you’re doing and looking for ways that we can, with some of our clients, do some work with you at some point.

Jim Padilla: For sure. Appreciate it, Doug.

Doug; Well, thanks again for tuning in listeners. I hope that this episode served you well. I hope that you’ve got some nuggets you can take away in terms of sales, sales marketing, and maybe some new ways of thinking about when is the right time to ask your potential customers for the sale. If you like this episode, don’t be shy. Leave us a review, add a comment to our blog post. As usual, we’ll transcribe this episode in full and I’ll make sure that all of Jim’s contact information and social media links are on the Real Marketing Podcast. Thanks for tuning in and I look forward to serving you in the next episode.

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Get in touch with Jim:

• Web – salesunscripted.com
• Jim on LinkedIn

Find out more about Jim:

• Jim’s podcast Salesunscripted.com/podcast
• Gain the Edge on Facebook
• Sales Unscripted on Instagram
• Coach Jim on Twitter
• Sales Unscripted on YouTube

Links to other related podcasts and or blog posts:

DEVELOPING EXPERT STATUS GENERATES NEW LEADS AND SALES

HOW TO SELL HOW YOUR CUSTOMERS BUY

HOW TO USE TWITTER TO CONNECT WITH INFLUENCERS

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