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Risk-free advertising online with guaranteed ROAS with Cooper Harris
- So rather than just showing a consumer cool pictures, we actually show them viable ad units from which they can actually purchase. And then we do that on a pure performance basis for our brands.
- We’re a tech platform behind the scenes and looking at things and making optimizations. It is literally an algorithm that uses its own learning to make decisions.
- We are super conversion focused. So we really want to show the right product, the right person at the right time.
- Brands are way overly dependent on Amazon. They don’t own their customer, Amazon owns them.
- I think it is so much more powerful and empowering for brands to have a service or a platform that helps them actually use the data to do something. And that something should be to drive sales.
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We’re a tech platform and we’re behind the scenes. It is performance-based, risk-free advertising, and it is literally an algorithm that uses its own learning to make decisions.
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Doug Morneau
0:01
Well, welcome back listeners another episode of Real marketing real fast. Today we are going to talk about risk-free in your advertising. So commission-based agency that will go out there and spend money talking about your products, your services, your brand, and they don’t get paid unless they generate sales. So my guest today in the studio to kind of dive into this and reveal how they’re making this work for their clients is Cooper Harris. Now she is a California based entrepreneur. She is the founder and the CEO of a company called KLICKLY. It is a data-driven impulse payment platform that powers headless e-commerce. So they have emerged as a pivotal figure in the West Coast tech scene here. Cooper has been nominated for Google’s young Innovation Awards. L’Oreal’s digital Woman of the Year and she won information age is Women in it, as well as Entrepreneur of the Year and named by Adobe as a top thought leader at canes. Cooper’s a favorite speaker at international summits, including CES canes lion shoptalk, s x s. w. Sundance, Los Angeles tech week London tech conference. And more speaking on the advances of e-commerce in retail, FinTech, and fostering women in STEM and disrupting the status quo about technology and innovation, we had a great conversation. I think you’re really gonna enjoy this show. There’s lots of information here. So I’d like you to join me in welcoming Cooper Harris to the real marketing real fast podcast today. So hey, Cooper, super excited to have you on the show today. So welcome to the real marketing real fast podcast.
1:46
Thanks, Doug. I’m super excited to be here.
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Doug Morneau
1:49
While there were so many things in your background that you know, that piqued my interest, and obviously the big most important one is how you guys are helping come To increase their revenue through your system, but also the wonderful places that you’ve lived, a couple of my favorite cities visit Santa Monica and are in New York. Welcome to the show. Why don’t you give us a little bit of background little oversight on what you’re doing and how you’re helping people?
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Copper Harris
2:20
Yeah, absolutely. So, I, as you know, and maybe the listeners don’t I am currently obsessed with tech, I did not start here. I started as an actor in film and TV. But then I got kind of obsessed and interested in technology and how it changes the world. So this is my second tech company. It is called Klickly like quickly spelled with a K. And we are a SaaS platform that helps over well over 1000 brands now, promote to the right consumer in the right channel at the right time with the right product, right. So advertising, but we do it in a really different way. So rather than just showing a consumer cool pictures, we actually show them viable ad units from which they can actually purchase. And then we do that on a pure performance basis for our brands. So we’re actually we call it being commissioned based. So when we help a brand drive a sale, we make a commission. And if we don’t drive sales, we don’t make money. So that’s a very, I mean, it’s aggressive kind of standpoint, but we want it to be completely aligned with our brands. And that’s the platform we’ve, we’ve built.
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Doug Morneau
3:29
That’s really cool. I mean, that’s not usually the case in sales and marketing. I’m sure you’ve run into the same experience that I have you talked to people that hey, I spent money on this didn’t work. For me, this didn’t work. And then you know, the key phrase there is they spent money, and then hope they were going to get a result of the SaaS provider or the consultant was going to deliver what they promised.
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Copper Harris
3:48
Yes. Oh, yeah. I mean, but can you also like it if we take a step back, and we just look at the business model for what is normally advertising, it’s like, these platforms are saying, hey, pay us a ton of money and then TBD That’ll happen. We’ll see if we can do anything. That’s a hilarious business model. Really?
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Doug Morneau
4:04
Well, listen digitally. We can measure a little bit closer. I mean, I remember when we used to be buying print and the advertising reps answer was what you need is frequency. And he said, No, what I need are sales. So, you know, I will agree to your contract, if you will agree to keep running it until we get ROI. Yep, exactly. So we know where that conversation ends. It’s like, No, we don’t do that. Like, yeah, well, I guess so. We’re not sending you money either.
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Copper Harris
4:27
Exactly. And that’s, that’s exactly why we started Klickly. We’re obviously now in an age in a world where everything is digital, we can measure it all. And given that we are long-standing deep experts in technology, I had the idea with my engineers, I was like, why don’t we just take all this data, put in some machine learning and use, you know, data back insights to actually go after the right person with the right thing the right time, and be so aligned with the brand that we can only you can afford to only charge them when we actually drive a sale. So that was why we started Klickly for sure.
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Doug Morneau
5:02
Well, I haven’t seen a platform like yours. So I’m super excited to be able to dive into this. So do you want to share a success story with us of the client? And then we’ll come back to how does your platform work and perform? And how do you help the brands to achieve this?
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Copper Harris
5:14
Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, a lot of our clients have success stories, and it can vary what success looks like, we have a small brand who came on and just kind of wanted to get a very conservative, you know, for x return. They actually this is one thing I should point out, Doug, our brands set whatever return they want. So they actually set the commission themselves and theoretically, if somebody wanted to come on instead of 1%, commission, they could but we wouldn’t show their products much, much and not very incentivizing.
But on this small client, you know, they were brand new, they came on, they were like we want a 4X return. They set the corresponding commission and we went to work and we were able to like I can quadruple those their sales in a couple of months. They were just using us, right? Now, that’s not necessarily what I recommend for a more established larger brand. But that was something that worked for them. We were so excited, excited to help. The other side of the spectrum is you get these very sophisticated big companies who want to add us to their marketing stack. And that works too. So we had a very premium, let’s say, organic health-centric superfood product on our platform. And they got super aggressive with their commission. And they grew like I think 30 X in six months, not just using us, but as one of the key drivers. And I was incredibly excited with that, you know, that return on ad spend of, you know, three x which is a super nice return.
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Doug Morneau
6:45
Yeah, I mean, that’s amazing. I mean, who wouldn’t do that to scale up their business? I mean, I’ve heard one person say, hey, if you know, for every dollar you gave me if I gave you $3 back you know, how much would you give me it’s like yeah, pretty much-unlimited amount of money. Yeah. Yeah. Very simple models understand.
6:58
It is
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Doug Morneau
7:00
So are there products or services, like give us an idea of what types of, you know clients and industries that you work in.
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Copper Harris
7:08
So we are currently what we call invite-only. And it sounds all exclusive. And it’s really just a practical kind of thing that we’ve had to undertake which, which, you know, when you say your commission-based advertising platform pretty much, most brands are curious. They’re interested. And we can only accept certain brands because of various parameters, and we want to make sure it’s a good fit, but folks that work really well on our platform, or anything that’s in the kind of consumable verticals right. And keep in mind everything is obviously e-commerce rate. I think that’s a given on all these direct to consumer brands that are pushing consumables from coffee to fitness products to awesome protein powders, amazing. We also have a ton of verticals like you know, fashion, accessories, shoes, all of that works very well, and then we can fitness and outdoor gear and yoga, and even like fishing, fishing stuff, we have about 48 categories that perform very well on our platform. But I’ll tell you what doesn’t work? Well, we had. And I wish we could have worked with them because I’m Southern and this would have been funny, but like a tractor, the company came to us and, and tried to sell there, like tractor accessories. And for whatever reason, our algorithms aren’t attuned to, to folks who need tractors that didn’t work well. Yeah, and anything b2b, of course, we actually can’t touch because our algorithms are tuned to consumer behavior.
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We’re a tech platform and we’re behind the scenes. It is performance-based, risk-free advertising, and it is literally an algorithm that uses its own learning to make decisions.
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Doug Morneau
8:40
Well, that’s really neat. I mean, I had interviewed a guy by name of Christopher Lochhead. I don’t know if you know or have heard of him, and he, he’s a really big data guy, you should probably connect with him. He’s now living just think a little bit north you in Santa Clara Canadian guy, worked as a CMO for a whole bunch of Silicon Valley startups pretty much retired now. But huge Huge on data and using data. So I’m sure you guys would get along and he probably is a great, great guy that to connect with anything. Absolutely. Very cool. So consumer brand. So now walk us through how the process works. So I’m a consumer brand I have this new like the world needs yet another protein powder. But it’s a tongue in cheek. I mean, I’ve tried just about every product that’s out there. So anyhow, I’ve got new, I’ve got a new product I want to bring to market and so I somehow get invited or connected with you guys go through a demo and you say, Hey, we’re a fit. So what happens after that?
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Copper Harris
9:35
Yeah, so basically, they would, you know, express interest, we’d have that first call we established it’s a fit, and then the actual process to get life is very fast. We have made it about a 15-minute process to get completely live. And it doesn’t require any dev work at all. You don’t have to have a coder. There are no fixed rules. There is no integration. The reason is that we do it ourselves on the back end. Because we recognize like brands shouldn’t, don’t need to be a technical wizard. Sometimes they are. But usually, they’re not. And putting a bunch of like implementation work for them is just extra cost that they don’t want to spend, right? So so they can jump on Klickly we give them the install link, they sign up two seconds, maybe give or take to sign up and create an account. The second step is uploading or choosing the products that they want us to promote. We actually ingest the products automatically from like the Shopify Magento, whatever platform they’re on. And then they choose the products they want us to promote. We auto-generate creatives for them. And then the third step is simply they choose that commission. Again, technically it can be anything from 1% to 100% Commission, and, you know, accordingly will promote them to a greater or lesser extent, but they choose that commission they push launch. And then that’s really it.
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Doug Morneau
10:55
So when you said you auto-generate the creatives Do you want to just do x explain that a little bit expands on that.
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Copper Harris
11:02
Yeah, you know, we are super conversion focused. So we really want to show the right product, the right person at the right time. We know it converts in our ecosystem at least. And so since we’re the ones taking on the risk, we auto-generate those creatives. So very similar to a PLR ad in Google that might be auto-generated as an example. Yep. Okay.
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Doug Morneau
11:25
Cool. Now, you said that that’s 15 minutes, and I still can’t get over the 15 minutes. I spend typically more time than that going through the contract in the end and all the other stuff. So how much tech do these guys have to have? So there got to be I’m assuming an established business. They’ve got to have a shopping cart. They have to have some track record of sales in the past.
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Copper Harris
11:46
Yep, that’s exactly right. Yes, because here’s the kind of downside if there is one of using like machine learning and data if you don’t have some sales data or some indicators there who likes to buy this brands product, you know, you can’t build a predictive model to understand who you should go target across the web for them. So if I don’t have data, just like if anyone’s ever done Facebook, you, you know that if your audience is too small, it will say learning forever, and you won’t be able to scale kind of similar with us, you know, we do need about at least 30,000 data points a month to be able to build a predictive model. Again, super small brand, either $30,000 worth of sales or 30,000 site visitors or whatever that is, but once you hit that, you know, kind of level then you’re good to go.
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Doug Morneau
12:39
Okay, yeah, that’s sort of an ask was how much data cuz I know, I know now there’s, you know, you’re using getting access to data even as a third party not using your app. I can upload that sort of that those sort of data points and I can get a huge report of exactly. You know, who these people are what all their online habits are. So that’s pretty cool.
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Copper Harris
12:58
It’s kind of interesting, if anyone’s interested in data and how all of this works like, you really don’t have people sitting back behind Klickly like making these like intelligent human decisions, right? It is a machine and it is an engine. So the so you can’t make like intelligent human assumptions and jumps. As an example, if I have a brand new protein powder company that has had, let’s say, five all-time sales ever, right? I, as a relatively intelligent person, could say, oh, maybe the type of person who would be interested in protein, this protein powder would want X, Y, and Z, right. But we’re a scalable platform. And we have to, you know, we offer this service to thousands of brands. So I can’t have Cooper looking at it making human assumptions, right, my machine when I point my algorithms at, you know, your old protein powder, who’s had five sales ever, they’re just going to be super confused and be like, I cannot make a data model out of these five data points. The rate doesn’t work.
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We’re a tech platform and we’re behind the scenes. It is performance-based, risk-free advertising, and it is literally an algorithm that uses its own learning to make decisions.
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Doug Morneau
14:01
Right now. Do you provide any insight and feedback to the brands and companies working with you? As you’re learning? I mean, obviously, yeah, I know, you’ve got a proprietary system. You’re doing this all the risks on you. Yeah. Yeah. So we’re sort of information, what I get is as a brand that, you know, sticking to protein powders, you, you know, I’ve got the 30,000 data points. You put this in your system, I’m assuming you’re gonna have a lot more data at your fingertips and, and analysis of that data than my team gonna have.
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Copper Harris
14:31
Yes, and no, we aren’t an agency at all. In fact, a lot of agencies actually use us within their tech stacks and platforms that they service for their, their clients. So we’re just the tech platform, we aren’t behind the scenes, like looking at things and making optimizations for the most part. It is literally an algorithm that uses its own learning to make decisions. So we know basically, as much as the brand knows when all of the data is then exposed. And we do try to show you know, the learning Things to our brands, we want them to have that data. So here’s what they’ll get. They’ll see on the homepage like that basic stuff, spend returns with that row as is the number of views clicks, all of that. We show like the top 10 sites they’ve been seen on. And those could be anything from like Vogue to L to ESPN to whatever. You know, we’ll show them in an in our Performance tab will show as a whole, you know, deep dive of like, how many clicks they’re getting, how many you know, how it’s like touchpoints, from first engagement to conversion touchpoints from last engagement to conversion, all these cool, like extra things, we will show them then we show them like top goes and all that good stuff.
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Doug Morneau
15:44
Well, it’s interesting because I mean, you’re looking at it from a consumer-centric point of view. You’re looking at the individual and I often have that conversation. I sat with somebody I said, Hey, why don’t you imagine what your customer does from the moment they wake up to the moment they go to bed and try to just imagine do they do the commute how far they listen to podcasts or listen to read Like, we’re all the touchpoints. And as a marketer, we’re often trying to make decisions based on assumptions. My customers x, they’re this old or they’re married, they’re single, they got kids, they don’t have kids, these are their hobbies. And then I’m going to a brand and I’m buying an ad on their site, and serving that up, and you’re saying, I don’t really care where they are. If they show intent to buy that type of product, we’re gonna serve them the ad and sell them the product.
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Copper Harris
16:26
Yep. Yeah, exactly. For the most part, I think, I mean, that’s very much our take, right? And because as you pointed out, we are paying for the ads upfront, the brand actually doesn’t pay a cent until we start driving sales. So we have to be very confident that we’re going to hit people who are actually going to go and you know, have intent are going to purchase and, and so that’s how, you know, that’s how we work. But then we actually don’t there’s certain there’s a certain channel that we actually don’t cover that the brand just covers themselves. And that’s just because we haven’t built out a robust Facebook practice. yet. So for the most part, we’re actually not on Facebook, which brands like, because most of them have got that nailed already. What they need is kind of the rest of the web. And that’s really where we play. But yeah, then once we get all those data points, we just surface them to the brand because we don’t care. They can take those and use them in other marketing campaigns or inform what they’re doing. Yeah.
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Doug Morneau
17:20
So different questions just kind of popped into my mind as you’re explaining how you’re doing that. So would you consider yourself, you know, or the service that you offer through Klickly an alternative to listing your products on Amazon?
17:35
What a loaded question, Doug.
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Doug Morneau
17:37
Well, I’m gonna assume you’re gonna say yes, but I want to hear what you have to say.
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Copper Harris
17:41
So our mission is to help these awesome digitally native challenger brands sell more, right? Right, become more empowered and own their customer. We really think that’s important and really cool. We’re super bought in so we by just virtue of our mission, you know, we want these brands to own the relationship and own the customer, you could say that we might be an additional nice channel to Amazon, right? Because Amazon is2gonna own that customer for you. And Amazon’s an incredibly powerful and great marketplace, I would say be there. So one major risk I see right now, of course, is our end. Everyone knows this. But brands are just way overly dependent on Amazon, right? They don’t own their customer, Amazon owns them. And that’s all well and good till they start popping up competitive products to yours and underpricing you and putting you out of business. Well, and that’s what I was thinking.
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We’re a tech platform and we’re behind the scenes. It is performance-based, risk-free advertising, and it is literally an algorithm that uses its own learning to make decisions.
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Doug Morneau
18:42
That’s suggesting that that’s the only one way but you know, being that they own the relationship, not only they own the relationship, they will often you know, get into that business. If you provide enough data showing there’s an enemy they’re like, hey, look at this. I’ve identified this huge market. So you know, market Yeah, that’s right for This new these new grasshopper protein powders. So hey, guess what now there are four other brands that show up to compete with you.
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Copper Harris
19:06
Yep, exactly. And we will never do that that is not in our roadmap ever. Like we don’t want to be in the business of popping up brands that compete with our merchants. That’s insane. Yeah, definitely not.
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Doug Morneau
19:18
So can you share with us some of how people qualify? Like what are the main things that you’re looking for when you know you’re considering taking on a brand or if you’re working with an agency, I’m guessing they’re kind of preventing their pre-vetting clients and once they establish relationships, probably a little bit easier process on your side?
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Copper Harris
19:36
Yeah, it is actually and one of our main, certainly one of our main kinds of adoption channels is through agencies but we work with a ton of brands directly. And what makes a great brand Klickly and vice versa. What makes Klickly a great fit for a brand is a brand that is you know, getting over those 30,000 sites hits a month or $30,000 a month. We just need those data points to do anything for you. purely for the data piece, then we want to see we want to work with brands that are, you know, ideally, fast-growing, obviously, but at least one of you, right, who want to get aggressive and get in there and grow fast. And we want to work with brands, typically, to fall into those 4 to 8 categories that we talked about, really, that’s almost any like, normal e-commerce product. Where we can help brands is again, if they’re B2B, or honestly, if they are in certain, I’m just like, no, no categories. We can’t touch weapons we can’t touch on, you know, I don’t know, really political groups, we don’t touch.
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Doug Morneau
20:41
Well, I just wrote that email. I think maybe you’re overlooking looking at my notes. I just wrote a question asking that were any restrictions and I was thinking, yeah, I’m assuming all the nano brands I mean, so there’s a bunch that I don’t need to mention. But I was thinking more things like CBD that’s Yeah, that’s off-limits for for for Google. Facebook, all the social platforms, and there’s a number of products that are there. So why was open you guys open for business? For those types of brands?
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Copper Harris
21:07
Um, so the answer is “yes” and “no.” It’s kind of an annoying two-sided answer, which I know that you know, CBD brands get all the time. We can work with some and we can’t work with others. So if it’s hemp-derived, we can usually work for you. If it is very glitzy, pot centric branding, where you have the five-leaf marijuana plant, or very for 20, shall we say we can’t, and the reason is that that visual alone will flag it with our partners. You know, okay. Yeah. And they’re not into it. So we have an incredible company called Sagely Naturals, which is just great. They’ve exploded the last year they’re in like Walgreens and CVS now. And my girlfriend started this company and we work well with them and they’re a CBD product. So it just depends.
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Doug Morneau
21:54
Well, that’s really cool. So where do you get pushback in the industry? I mean, you sound to me like you have created a category and you’re going to disrupt some people. And so what sort of pushback you’re getting as you guys are growing your own business?
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Copper Harris
22:06
Yeah, I mean, certainly there is the peace about not being able to work with tiny, tiny brands, we’re just literally and physically not able to. It’s a data constraint that we can’t have anything, we can’t have an impact on currently. So we get some flack for, like, not wanting to support the really tiny brands. And that’s just, you know, we would love to we don’t have a strong enough machine learning model yet, but maybe in the future, we will. So that’s the first piece in terms of like other platforms, kind of looking askance at what we’re up to. You know, we’ve certainly had a lot of the big players come calling being like, “Wait, how are you doing this? What are you doing?” But I think, for the most part, our position is very much yes. And the meaning we want to be additive. We’re a new channel. We don’t want you to necessarily cut your other marketing spin. If it’s working for you. We just offer a new risk-free additional channel where if you want kind of a guaranteed row as a channel you can add to what you’re already doing. And I think that will remain our position. We definitely don’t have the goal to be competitive and take over anyone else’s ad spend at this time.
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Doug Morneau
23:14
That’s really cool. So you develop the company, how many years ago now?
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Copper Harris
23:18
Oh, my gosh, three and a half, four years now. Yeah. But God, we spent a year and a half before we even launched almost two years just building the tech. So it was yeah,
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Doug Morneau
23:28
a big build. What’s amazing to me is I spend every day at least sometime every day looking for new technologies and systems and platforms for my clients. And my kind of take them what I do is if they already know the answer, then I’m in no value to them. They just need to go by it. And I’m always surprised when I have a chance to meet someone like yourself and look at your company go like holy smokes. This is so cool. You know, I think I’m in the space. I go to the right trade shows hanging with the right people to kind of keep abreast of what’s going on. And here’s something brand new that was out brand new, brand new.
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Copper Harris
24:01
Yeah, I mean, we are pretty new. We’ve been, I think publicly launched for over a year and a half now we’re over now we have, you know, thousands of the top e-commerce brands. And what’s so disappointing is we’re on this amazing roll. And I think we still are. But you know, we were slated to be official speakers at shoptalk this year. And now we’re going to, you know, have a nice presence at a budget to imagine, etc, etc. So of course, now, those plans are not happening anymore. But we definitely have, because we’ve been invite-only we worked really closely through a lot of agencies, we actually may not have as big of a brand presence, as you know, perhaps other folks and yet we’re still new, we definitely can invest more there. But yeah, I would say in a sense, we’re like still under the radar.
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Doug Morneau
24:45
But I mean, that’s not necessarily a bad thing. I mean, if you’re in too much in the public eye and the public’s not your audience, then you’re gonna get the wrong type of calls. And that’s really just not gonna help your business and it’s not going to help the people calling you because they’re not going to get what they’re looking for either.
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Copper Harris
24:58
That’s a good point.
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Doug Morneau
25:02
Well, I remember when we sponsored one of the NHL teams, as people said, Why would you do that? You know, the fans aren’t your business and no, it’s not the fans. It’s the other sponsors. Right? It’s Best Buy. It’s all those. Those are my customers not it’s not the person sitting in row 16 having it is the guy who’s got the other suite beside us.
25:22
Mm hmm. Clever I like that.
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Doug Morneau
25:24
Very cool. So what are you most excited about in the next six 8 to 12 months, next year? Obviously, you guys around, you know, you’re tearing it up. And I’m sure that this is just the beginning. I’m not you’re not going to share anything proprietary, but you must have some stuff that’s really keeping you awake at night and you’re excited about
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Copper Harris
25:39
Okay, so here’s the thing that is most recently on my mind as of this morning. So I’m sure you watch the market today. Or maybe you didn’t, but here in the States as you know, we had some hiccups and I anticipate it will be picky and a little weird or really, really over the next six months, right? Um, you know, we’re, we’re at the brink of what could be just kind of choppy waters or something larger. And I think brands feel that right now. And certainly know, they know that consumers buying from them may have a little law, you know, upset here and there over the next period of time, whatever that is six to 12, two more months. So what’s really interesting and also, of course, on the back of COVID, for the, you know, q2, we have seen a number of our brands, unfortunately, and I would never say this is a good thing because I think it’s, you know, very tough for them. But they’ve had to layoff folks, right? And whether they’re able to bring them back or not, I don’t know. But as they’ve laid people off, I have seen brands need to take up platforms that are perhaps less risky but are also automated because what they’re trying to do is leave Keep a core like a skeleton team to keep the brand running. Right, which we all want. So, why I think that’s important is I think you will see platforms that have an automated nature that requires fewer resources and team members, I think you’ll see a lot of that. So email super strong, you can automate that quickly. I mean, again, shameless plug, but like, one of the reasons we made it machine learning was so that you don’t have to allocate any resources to it. You just set it and it runs. And I think that you know, for better or worse, as people go to that skeleton crew, perhaps hopefully not, but you know, you’ll see, you’ll see more and more adoption of those types of platforms.
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1
Doug Morneau
27:44
Well, and I, you know, to your point, I mean, the typically the VPS of marketing and the marketing teams are typically overworked. And the last thing they want to see is yet one more platform I do a ton of stuff in the email space and, and most of them have such a small amount of time to even develop to that one. On one channel, so you have 50 other things. So what they don’t need is something new. And they just say, hey, guess what? I’ve got some, you know, I was at this conference, I, you know, I heard this person that heard Cooper speak, and you’re going to implement this. It’s like, okay, just this added to the Yeah, on the corner, the corner of my desk. Yeah. But because you’re going in this direction, I want to ask you some, you know, just something else around creative. So, about a year ago, we started testing a platform to run ads on Facebook using AI. And what was interesting was that it like your system, it created did all the creatives. And what we found was we got higher conversion rates at a lower cost and a lot less management. And I started thinking what does that mean now for people in the creative design Creative Writing business, where we might create you know, a dozen different ads, run the ads manually track the results manually? Now the computers doing that, and I thought, well, I guess you know, the ability is to take those people and use their talent in different platforms. So how do you think what you guys are doing right now is going to impact the kind of the creative community as you’re, as you’re, you know, using AI and using machine learning?
2
Copper Harris
29:11
Well, it, I mean, that you cannot, you can’t get conversions if you don’t have a well-built brand, and a good brand voice and good branding. So if you don’t have a website that sings and is beautiful, right, if you don’t have product photos that are compelling and not pixelated, if you don’t have those things, and you haven’t built the right tone, even right, we can’t do anything for you. Right, you won’t get conversions. So that has to be and I think will remain the foundation and the basis of a strong brand. Right. Um, so we will always need those folks to come up with that. I don’t think we’re close to that. At least computers aren’t gonna be able to do that for a little while. Yeah, yeah. But, but in terms of then taking those assets and pulling from the site and pulling from the Description, the copy that’s already been written by them. And using those in a way, kind of to drop into templates and, you know, throw those around the web. That’s kind of what we’re doing. So definitely, in some cases, you know, maybe they’re not doing as much. They’re just focusing less on the ads and more on the site. Maybe that’s the mix-up. Also, keep in mind, you still need storytelling. So people aren’t going to buy your products if they haven’t seen your story somewhere. So those video ads, those compelling story based long-form, you know, visually enhanced ads, all that still has to be there.
1
Doug Morneau
30:34
Yep, yep, sure enough, and it was it wasn’t a trick question. I wasn’t picking on Alfredo. It was just, yeah, it was just,
2
Copper Harris
30:40
it’s a really good point. And some people have said to us, well, doesn’t your platform make agencies redundant? And I was like, maybe in like 100 years, but currently, agencies actually use us what they do with any of the best cutting edge technology to enhance your offering. We don’t have any services that are you know, at our company so so they use it to enhance theirs. Yeah.
1
Doug Morneau
31:03
And that’s what we do. And that’s basically you know, I’ll let you know my secret. That’s me, that’s my monetization strategy for my podcast is to meet and interview the smartest people in marketing technology to see who’s a good fit for my clients. Do people know what type of strategy is that? I just wanna, I just want to find out first, and I want to see, you know, are they a good guest in the indoor like their company? Can I take this person to my clients and say, I think we should implement this. So I don’t see it as a threat to the agencies unless the agencies really want to still handhold and do everything manually, which we can’t help them. That’s just the way that goes.
2
Copper Harris
31:39
Yeah, I don’t think that’ll last long. Just, you have to, as you said, and I love that you’re using this as your kind of biz dev like betting, betting funnel, if you will,
1
Doug Morneau
31:49
but I really don’t tell my guests at the beginning. This is a 30-minute interview to see if I think you’re a really good fit for my clients. I also want to make sure there’s value for our listeners. Absolutely. That’s hilarious. I love it.
2
Copper Harris
31:59
Yeah, any agency that isn’t being super cutting edge and trying at least to, you know, offer the latest platforms, I think won’t be an agency for long. So.
1
Doug Morneau
32:10
So stealing a question from Tim Ferriss. What was the bad advice that you hear as you’re out? Speaking and meeting different groups around machine learning and AI? In the advertising marketing space?
32:25
Ah, oh, no.
32:27
Not my domain name brands are people.
32:30
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so.
2
Copper Harris
32:33
So it’s really interesting. There’s, there are two kinds of schools of thought around this, right. And don’t get me wrong, data, AI, all of that is super powerful. It’s great. But there’s this one camp that says, hey, let’s just get it like, let’s get the insights. Let’s gather the machine learning let’s, let’s get the data. And then there’s another camp that’s perhaps a little more practical. That’s great. So now that we’ve been Got this, like, let’s also be a platform that can help people implement it. Because big brands fortune 500, they can go buy all the data they want. But if you are a medium-sized company, and you don’t have the team to actually do anything with it, it’s a little bit silly. Like, it’s a little bit of overkill. So one thing I’ve seen as a lot of these platforms out there, that will be like, we give you x, y, z, you know, insights, but the stuff they’re showing is just like Ph. D level stuff, you know, and that’s great. We have that too. But I think it is so much more powerful and empowering for brands to have a service or a platform that helps them actually use the data to do something. And that something should probably be drive sales.
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Doug Morneau
33:43
Yeah, you’re right. I’ve sat. I’ve sat in those meetings. And yeah, so it’s great to have all the data but the real question is, why are you gathering the data, you’re wasting your time if you’re not going to implement it or analyze it or look at what you’re doing and try to find improvement, then why bother?
2
Copper Harris
33:57
Yep, it’s really expensive. Yeah. Like an expensive way to get with the trends?
1
Doug Morneau
34:03
Well, I think the other great thing is I remember when we started tasting our testing, multivariate testing a long time ago when I first started to come out, and you’re paying, you know, four or $5,000 a month for a platform, and having a discussion with a client, in the service industry, and saying, this is where, you know, this is where we’re driving your business. And you went, No, I disagree. So what do you mean, you disagree? My customers aren’t that sophisticated. It’s like, this isn’t a discussion. This is the data.
34:28
Yeah, they actually, yeah, this
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Doug Morneau
34:29
is this is the fact No, no, Hi, my customers don’t know those terms. They would never type that in a search engine. Like Okay, so I mean, your data clearly, I mean, your results take that debate out of the question, and it also takes you to know, with the multivariate testing, I don’t care who’s right. You know, who’re creative wins. I just want the winning creative to get all the funding, so we make more money.
2
Copper Harris
34:50
Yeah, exactly. Yep. Yeah. Yeah, it’s kind of an emotionless you know, the automated result is better than an emotion Phil. You know
34:59
what? No, no he Oh,
35:02
yeah. Yeah.
1
Doug Morneau
35:05
So different questions. Who’s one guest you think I absolutely have to have on my podcast?
35:11
It was I mentioned them earlier um
2
Copper Harris
35:13
Sagely Naturals this really high-end CBD high end yet accessible CBD based on pain relief brand, but I just love what they’ve done because they’ve taken kind of a, you know, a fringe vertical right CBD and made it completely accessible their audience is baby boomer women while in okay. Yeah, yeah. And my friend Kerrigan started this company and she’s built it to now they’re like, I think the only CBD product and like Walgreens and CVS. It’s pretty incredible. They’re like number one in the, I guess, retail drug store CBD category. So I think that’s amazing. I will look them up.
2
Copper Harris
35:54
Yeah. And then do you know Dr. Squatch Organic Soap. They are. Incredible. So they perked along for like, I don’t know, three, four or five years. And then suddenly, I think a year and a half ago, they like started trying to scale and they make soap by the way. And they just exploded. It’s absolutely bonkers. They are like, I won’t quote any numbers, but I think they are like maybe 20 x what they were last year. And there they’re a large company. It’s just incredible. And they’re using all this fantastic content to do it to like funny videos kind of Dollar Shave style. But I’ve been really impressed with what they have done.
1
Doug Morneau
36:36
Super cool. Yeah. Are you able to make an introduction to, those two individual companies?
36:42
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
1
Doug Morneau
36:44
So walk us through the process for our listeners who say, hey, this centrally cool. I have an agency. I don’t have an agency. If they wanted to connect with you learn more, see if they’re a fit, and started discussion. How would they do that?
2
Copper Harris
36:57
Yeah, so there are two ways and by the way, We do have a super nice perk for folks from this podcast. So basically we’ll give them some free ad boosts, I will bump them a tear so they have their own growth specialists and a couple of other fun perks. So if anyone is interested, they can, they can reach out to my team and just mention you and your podcast and we’ll hook them up. But the way to connect with us is to check out our URL or website, which is brands.klickly.com. So that will take them straight to the brands offering from Klickly and clearly spelled k l ICKLY. Klickly. So they go to brands Klickly dot com, or they can always just hit me up on Instagram. I’m just at Cooper Harris.
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1
Doug Morneau
37:44
Super good. Now any parting thoughts that you want to leave with us for wind up?
2
Copper Harris
37:50
Um, you know, I think about this and, you know, over the next 6 to 12 months, I think you know, we might see some really curious things happen with the market. E-commerce is really well situated, though, given that we’re all online. So I would just remind brands like, it’s about grit. It’s about perseverance. It’s about making those decisions to really be smart and risk-free in your advertising. stay lean. And then and then remember, remember to own your consumers that chip is what will get you through any potential weirdness or downturn that we might have.
1
Doug Morneau
38:26
Yeah, but yeah, I appreciate that. I mean, I, I remember seeing somebody So remember, when we talked about building your email list, you didn’t think you need to do that? How would you like to have a really nice big list now? Yeah, yeah. So he said, Oh, your data on your platform on the customer relationship?
2
Copper Harris
38:42
Yeah. Oh, and potentially think about putting in a subscription now so you can build up a nice subscriber base, you know, in the next month or two?
1
Doug Morneau
38:51
Yeah, I missed it. It’s never too late. I mean, the days that I said to someone the great news about this big crisis we’ve gone through is we don’t have to have a discussion with brands. More about should they are online that that discussion that’s that ship has sailed. So the next thing is what’s your online presence gonna look like? And in terms of being digital now the whole world knows what zoom is whether or not their business or consumer or my mother in law or whoever else, everyone knows what zoom is so you know, get with it. Are you gonna miss the miss this opportunity?
39:22
Yeah, totally agree. I couldn’t agree more. Why?
1
Doug Morneau
39:26
Well, I’m gonna say thanks. I appreciate your taking the time. I really loved the conversation. I could talk to you for a long time, but I know you’ve got clients to serve. So I want to respect your time and say thanks for sharing and thanks for being a guest.
39:37
Thank you Doug. This is so much fun.
1
Doug Morneau
39:41
Well, your listeners is another episode of Real marketing real fast. I really appreciate that. Cooper can speak quickly as well. That’s kind of the way I like to listen to my podcasts at one and a half speed. You can probably listen to this one just one time one x. Lots of valuable information. I did a deep dive and looked at all the background, the company and currency Social media, there’s lots of information there, I’d highly recommend that you have a look. And so for me, you know, how can you not recommend risk-free advertising? So have a look. Check it out. I just wanna say thanks for tuning in, and we look forward to serving you in our next episode.
Instagram. I’m just at Cooper Harris.
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