HOW TO GET ARTICLES PUBLISHED BY MAJOR PUBLISHERS

Tips on how to get articles published by major publishers

  • Whenever I put out a piece of content that I've created where I'm controlling the narrative and the messaging, I consider a big fat ad for me. Because essentially I'm talking about something that I know about and asserting myself as a subject matter expert, a thought leader.
  • The media outlets like Time Inc., or Conde Nast for example, they've been around for over a hundred years and they've spent millions building their brands, their cred, their authority. In an instant when your article is featured that is fully lent to you.
  • What I know after working with editors and producers for years now is that they love hearing from the talent directly, which is you. 
  • You know who you are and you could easily do some homework on the right type of media outlets for you.
  • People say “I can't believe that they want to hear from little old me.” It's not a little old you.  It's “expert” you. And the media needs experts. 

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HOW TO GET ARTICLES PUBLISHED BY MAJOR PUBLISHERS

[just click to tweet]

HOW TO GET ARTICLES PUBLISHED BY MAJOR PUBLISHERS

Major media outlets have spent millions building their authority. In an instant when your article is featured that is fully lent to you.

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Doug: Well, welcome back, listeners, to another episode of Real Marketing Real Fast. Today we're going to talk to somebody who's gotten some of the best jobs in technology with up to a half a million dollars in income without a college degree so she knows that you don't need one to succeed. She also writes for some of the best in media outlets which you'll recognize as I formally introduce her in the world and she has no journalism or writing training. In fact, she has zero credentials besides her high school education.

I find that the best stuff comes from… I mean this might sound a little sentimental, but just like being a good person, right? Like showing up, being consistent and reliable.

I'd like to introduce you to Susie Moore. She's a former Silicon Valley sales director, term life coach and advice columnist. Her work has been featured on the Today Show, Oprah Business Insider, the Huffington Post, Forbes, Time Inc, Marie-Claire and she's treated as a resident life columnist for some of the greatest. Susie's work and insights have been shared by celebrities and thought leaders, including Adriana Huffington, Kris Jenner, and Sarah Blakely. Her first book, What If It Doesn't Work Out was named by Entrepreneur as one of the eight business books every entrepreneur must read to dominate their industry. She lives in Miami with her husband Heath and their Yorkshire terrier Coconut. So I'd like to welcome Susie Moore to the Real Marketing Real Fast Podcast today.

Well good morning Susie, welcome to the Real Marketing Real Fast podcast. Hey, I'm super excited for you to share with our audience today.

Susie: Oh, thank you. I'm very, very happy to be here. Thank you for inviting me.

Doug: So do you want to just share quickly what you would say your superpower is and how you help your clients and help entrepreneurs and business people to be more successful in what they do?

Susie: Yes, I would love to. I think that one thing that I am very passionate about doing is helping people kind of come out from the behind the scenes of their business, right? Sometimes it's very easy to even just think your Instagram's enough, maybe you know, YouTube is enough. And too busy ourselves with all the backend stuff. But one thing that I really know that helps move any business forward is a real personal connection with the owner, with the CEO of that business. And one thing that I love to do is to help people become confident in really owning who they are and then confident in then showing that and becoming far more visible as a leader.

Doug: So what steps would someone take? Like I agree with you, lots of times it's very easy and very comfortable too… And I use the words for myself anyhow to hide behind your computer. And not have that forward-facing conversation either with a live client or reaching out and speaking to a reporter. So how do you start this process with entrepreneurs and business owners who have not done that before?

Susie: I think the first step is to kind of allow yourself to want it. I think that there's a couple of things that hold people back. First of all, we think “Oh, other people are doing what I'm doing. Maybe it's not that special.” And often I think that sometimes we are waiting for something to happen, something to change, some magical sign, some permissions land in our laps of that then allows us to take action and move forward and become like truly the leader that we want to be. If you think about why people go into business in the first place, right? It's to make an impact. Essentially. It'll be some form of saying if you go to any boss, any entrepreneur, and CEO if they go into business to make an impact and to make the biggest impact that you can. It's important to be visible.

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HOW TO GET ARTICLES PUBLISHED BY MAJOR PUBLISHERS

[just click to tweet]

HOW TO GET ARTICLES PUBLISHED BY MAJOR PUBLISHERS

Major media outlets have spent millions building their authority. In an instant when your article is featured that is fully lent to you.

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And you see this with a lot of great leaders that exist already, right? We, of course, know their companies, we know their products and services, but we want to see them. We want to hear from them. We want to know their story, we want to know their struggles. And this is what the media can do so well for us. Media, you know it exists. It relies on us for stories and when we understand and allow ourselves to think that the media can be an option for us, then we're actually doing a very generous thing by sharing our stories in a bigger way.

Doug: Yeah, I think that's a good point. I mean often I think people forget and they understand that the media every day gets up with a problem. They have to produce content, whether it's audio or TV or print. And as business owners, we can help them solve their problem by presenting an opportunity for them to talk about what we're doing or a problem we're solving for people.

Susie: Absolutely. I mean, so I have a live event that I run a couple of times a year. And my most recent live event two different editors said that they need to get 10 pieces of content live per day. Per day. So whenever you are pitching yourself, sharing your advice, sharing your knowledge, sharing your story, you're doing an editor who needs content needs to feel at a time or space get traffic, you're doing them a favor. As long as your content is interesting and it's useful. And it is in most cases if you kind of understand what entices a reader or a viewer, then what you're doing is important and it's very, very helpful too.

Doug: Well, and it's also taking into consideration how it's going to serve the media. I mean, they're not interested in running an ad for my company per se, but they are interested in a story that is good for their readers or their listeners.

Susie: Exactly which is the best ad, in fact, Doug, right? It's like it's advertising about spending the money, and it's advertising in the most real human way.

Doug: Well, my first experience when I can actually do a comparison because I like to use analytics for the marketing and the stuff that we do with our clients, as I had shared some information with a news outlet. And I said, “Hey I've got some kind of behind the scenes information on this market sector and if you ever need the information you're just welcome to come to my office and help yourself.” And he phoned me up and he said, “Hey, I'd like to do a story on you.”

And the story ran in the same publication that I was actually running print ads. They had a very aggressive print ad campaign and I started tracking the number of phone calls I got. And what was funny, not funny was all the calls were coming from the short piece of editorial although I had a much larger ad that I had run in that publication for like a year. So I'm going, okay, so you know there's PR at its finest and editorial content that made the phone ring.

Susie: Exactly.

Doug: Where the ads were less efficient.

Susie: That doesn't surprise me at all. I've heard this story a lot. You know, paid media is great. I run that too. But whenever I put out a piece of content that I've created where I'm controlling the narrative and the messaging, I consider a big fat ad for me. Because essentially I'm talking about something that I know about and asserting myself as a subject matter expert, a thought leader. I mean I don't love that term, but you're creating content and putting it out there on a large outlet, then that's what you just naturally become.

And when you think about it, Doug, the media outlets that exist, so you know, like Time Inc., or Conde Nast for example, they've been around for over a hundred years and they've spent so many years and so many millions building their brands, their cred, their authority and in an instant when you're featured that and editorial piece that is fully lent to you. All of that credibility, all those years is lent to you in an instant. Because to a reader or true to a viewer, you are Vogue or you are Esquire, or you are the Huffington Post. So there's just so much that comes with it. And as you've come to experience you know more businesses naturally one of those things. And that's a very nice side effect.

Doug: Well, and I think I've often found people say, “Well, I don't know how to pitch.” And I think lots of times, at least from my personal experience, has been just really paying attention to what's on in the news. Regardless of where you get your news, just paying attention and going, “I can answer that question,” or I can contribute to that reporter's commentary. And it's reaching out and you know, you don't get hate mail back. I mean, it's not like you're cold calling people who don't want to hear from you. They get pitched all the time. So they're used to getting pitched all the time and it's just part of their business and that's what they need.

Susie: That's true. And it's just some producers rely on pitches, like without pitches, I mean what would they be doing? I mean, so much of what they do is inbound. It's kind of responding to the inbound. And look publicists can play a role in that certainly. But what I know after working with editors and producers for years now is that they love hearing from the talent directly, which is you. And when you can share a story, when you can just reach out in a human way and be useful. I mean, so for example, think of what's going on in the news of the moment. I just noticed somebody in my group is pitching this, which is fantastic. There's quite a lot of commentary around Meghan Markle and Harry and you know, having a baby and then bullying in the media. And we have a bully expert in our group now is the time like to reference that and to speak about that.

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HOW TO GET ARTICLES PUBLISHED BY MAJOR PUBLISHERS

[just click to tweet]

HOW TO GET ARTICLES PUBLISHED BY MAJOR PUBLISHERS

Major media outlets have spent millions building their authority. In an instant when your article is featured that is fully lent to you.

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So like you said, Doug, just paying attention. Like my content is completely evergreen. But if there's a newspaper I can tack on to… In fact, and this is a funny story, I was pitching Marie-Claire for a long time. Pitching them, pitching them, pitching them because I love that magazine. It was like a dream for me to be in Marie Claire. It was like growing up one of my favorite things. And I wasn't getting anywhere because I was just pitching evergreen content. And then one time I think they were just so tired of my pitch the editor said to me, “You know what? This piece can work.” She CC'd another editor, and she said, “Let's run it the day after Kim and Kanye's wedding.” So my piece was about how to have a wedding on a budget, right? How to have a romantic wedding on a budget.

And look that's an evergreen topic, right, people getting married all the time. People budget all the time. But she was like, let's run it straight… And so the piece was hot off the heels of one of the most elaborate weddings in history. Here's how you can keep your wedding costs down. And interestingly, my very first fast live TV interview was because I had written about divorce a few times because I was divorced in my early 20s and it was when Chris Martin Gwenyth Paltrow consciously uncoupled.

My old pieces around divorce were dug up because producers and editors are just like us, they're Googling around for experts, looking for content. And they wanted me to have a point of view on it and all I did as a human was get divorced and write about it. It's not like I'm a divorce lawyer or I'm a divorce counselor or even a divorce coach. I just went through an experience, shared it. And therefore because you know, because my voice was heard then this is how you get discovered to offer your voice and your point of view on what's going on not just today but in the future too.

Doug: Yeah, that totally makes sense. I mean and I agree with you, my experience has also been that most often the media would rather hear from the entrepreneur or the small business person themselves than to be pitched by a PR company. And not all the PR companies out there do a great job. I get lots of pitches for my podcast and some of them… I was just speaking to a fellow podcaster the other day and I said to her, “I really feel like I should write back to the person that hired the PR company to tell them what a bad job they're doing.” They're pitching me for topics that don't make any sense. The pitches are bad. And you know that somebody someplace is paying money to make that happen and they're just not getting the result because they're not paying attention.

Susie: I'm so happy you said that Doug. Look, I get pitched to because I write columns in various media outlets and I've had two different publicists pitch me, two of my closest friends. Oh and they're sending me their full bio, I'm like we were just in Mexico together. Like no research. And the thing is this can't happen when you're your own publicist. And you know, when you're doing it yourself you already know who you are and you could easily do some homework on the right type of media outlets for you.

But actually, I told my friends lovingly, I'm like, “Look publicists they're often overworked. They have a lot of clients. They just have to push out… Or they don't have to, but they with the time that they have, they often just decide to pump out a lot of emails, blanket style.” And also, I'll say, “Just so you know my dear your publicist pitched me you.” And I think that that's fine because they can then have an honest conversation. Because you're right, they are paying for and publicists are very expensive. This is why I want to democratize PR by helping people do it themselves. Because not only are they more likely to be successful, but also it's not something that's so mystical. It's like this really impossible mystic thing to learn. It's available to all of us.

Doug: Yeah, absolutely. And after becoming a client of yours and purchasing, Your Five Minutes to Famous course. You'd brought up HARO and I had looked at that years ago and I thought I'm just going to try it. And just like anything else, ad spot analytics, let's follow the advice that you're giving and let's go through that. And I was really surprised at the hit ratio in terms of how many I responded to. So I was obviously selective to make sure that I could fulfill what they were looking for. But I would guess that we probably got over 30% turned into an article.

Susie: I mean that's incredible, right? Like it's incredible. And not only do you get your piece featured but then you have an editor, you have a contact. Do you have like an acquaintance who will then if they work with you… Often my editors come to me and they're like, “Do you have a point of view on this?” And I either do or I don't if it makes sense for me to participate. But often they'll come to me and they'll even go to my blog saying, “Can I put this on Business Insider or can I put this wherever it maybe.” Because I'm a trusted source. And that is an awesome place to be. It means you have a lot more control than as somebody else's managing it for you. And that means that you can often… You can also determine how often you pitch. You can completely control the messaging. You include the links that make sense for you.

So doing this yourself… I mean, no matter what, I know that some people who have some very successful businesses, huge teams, huge ad budgets, but they still keep their media contacts very close and they… Just, for example, Tony Robbins, when he goes to New York, he goes to the Business Insider offices personally, right? And he goes and he gives like a… He'll do a quick coaching session with some executives there. Because he knows the value of media. People who are often very successful do. And like I said, this isn't just for the people who are super well known is for people like us to help us. We have just regular people to help us get more well known.

Doug: Well and I mean it helps with your SEO. And the other thing that I saw, saw somebody the other day asking for help, and I can't remember which blog it was on. They're asking for help with reputation management and they're saying, “What should I be doing for reputation management?” Dig the well before you need to water. Don't show up when you've got nothing published and you've got nothing from a third party credible source saying that you're a smart person. Don't wait until something bad happens.

Susie: Right. In fact, somebody said to me recently, Doug, she's like, “I guess my books coming out in December. Do you think it's too soon?” Because she asked me should I come to your live event, which is in October. And she said, my book's coming out in December. Is that too soon? And I'm like, “Girl, you don't want to be like, here's my book. You don't me yet, but here's the book.” The longer the runway the longer you can prepare and kind of build some relationships, do some great work, do some great pitching. And then editors will be [inaudible 00:14:39] what goes into a book launch. They respect authors and they want to help. In fact, I have my second book coming out next year and I know my editors will time it, the time my pieces for my launch week because that's how we worked together. It was definitely a give, take generous relationship.

Doug: Yeah. It comes back to relationships. So there's just really no shortcut to building a good relationship with somebody and you know, adding value to their lives and there's a fit and you guys can work together.

Susie: I completely agree and I think that sometimes we overlook this, we can be very myopic in terms of what do I need to do this week to make money in my business, right. Whereas…

Doug: Well that's long term, normally I say, what can I do today to have a paycheck tonight?

Susie: I know, well a whole week.

Doug: Yeah, a whole week.

Susie: I find that the best stuff comes from… I mean this might sound a little sentimental, but just like being a good person, right? Like showing up, being consistent and reliable. Maybe someone who's generous about sharing information. And I think that when you do that like the longterm it does kind of take care of itself. But also the things that focus on your business are very leveraged and you're not in this constant scrambling mode.

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HOW TO GET ARTICLES PUBLISHED BY MAJOR PUBLISHERS

[just click to tweet]

HOW TO GET ARTICLES PUBLISHED BY MAJOR PUBLISHERS

Major media outlets have spent millions building their authority. In an instant when your article is featured that is fully lent to you.

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Doug: Yeah. I mean, I don't want to go into a topic that we're never supposed to discuss and that's politics, but we just had an election in Canada. And the politicians generally are the worst at building relationships. So it's like, okay, I'm going to hear from you every four years. And why every four years? Because there's an election every four years and you want me to donate money or you want me to volunteer. Now, what are you going to do for those other three and a half years? Nothing. So that's not really your relationship. That's just a list that you blast when you want something and you don't add any value, have any discussion, build any relationships, any deeper than that.

Susie: It's true. In fact, my friend has a joke, she's like, you don't want to be like the drunk uncle that shows up asking for money once in a while. You don't even… You want to be like a consistent family member.

Doug: I was asking for money.

Susie: It's like, “Hey baby, we haven't seen each other in 10 years, can I have some money.” So yeah, it's true. I think just being consistent and like showing up. I mean it sounds overly simple, but I think the best and most successful things in life are simple.

Doug: Well that doesn't sound like a new hack or a new app. It sounds pretty simple.

Susie: Yeah, precisely. But I think that sometimes when it comes to like solving problems… I mean I also have a belief that any problem in business is actually just an emotional block. It's so easy to convolute stuff and make things appear complicated. But really it's like… In fact, I had this conversation with somebody recently because I said “How are you monetizing immediate leads? Because that's something very important in my opinion.” And she was like, “I don't know.” And I'm like, “Well just measure it.” Like go going through like the last two months in your business, see where the money's come from and see… Simple. See where the money's come from, see what's worth your time, see what isn't. Again, it sounds like, “Oh that's very simple,” but it's easy to not to… Things that are easy to do also are very easy not to do.

Doug: Yeah, that's right.

Susie: And so I think that some of these just general simple principles if we apply them, we can just allow a little more success in without so much more hassle.

Doug: Absolutely. You're right. I mean, you don't need to have big fancy computer programs. It could be an Excel sheet, it could be a Google doc, it could be a piece of paper saying, “Hey, I had 15 leads come in this week. Where do they come from?”

Susie: Exactly. And she had this woman has like a high-end coaching program or she has 35ish women. I'm like, “Okay, great. How many came from media? 5, 10, 15? Where did the others come from? Okay. Wherever people are coming from double down on those.” Like, that's it.

Doug: Yep. And what do the best people come from?

Susie: Yeah, precisely. Who likes, the easy to work with people who are just a joy. Right? Who you want to show up for.

Doug: Yeah. I tell people I'm not lazy. I just want people that pay me well and that are fun to work with and get me. I don't want to have to arm wrestle them every time I make a recommendation. So, you know…

Susie: Yeah. It's so interesting. Like Michael Hyatt has this great model where he's like the dream client. Like you know, higher-end, no stress versus like the lower end, high stress and how you can kind of get like a mix. But there are plenty of great high-end clients out there who want to work with you, who show up on time they do the work. I always say to everybody like, your success is my success if I work with you. Like I always say it's so cool for me when I see my students in media, that's my dream to be in. I mean that is like the coolest thing isn't it Doug.

Doug: Yeah, that's pretty exciting.

Susie: I'm like, I've been quoted in Cosmo as an expert but I haven't contributed to them. And one of our students recently was a contributor there and I was like, “Go Rebecca.” You know, like I feel like it's a huge win for me.

Doug: So is there a client, do you want to give a shout out to? An example of somebody who you know, that you transitioned to this, “Hey, I want to do this, but I don't know how to make it happen.”

Susie: Yeah, I'm just thinking there's so many. Oh, I'm going to give a juicy one. So there's one person in our group… And look, we tend to attract a lot of coaches and a lot of bloggers. But he's a golf expert. And I certainly know nothing about this golf niche. I don't know the golf lexicon, I don't know any of the references. But he came to the program, understood that this is all available, right? It's not like this like a glass tower that you have to climb and some fancy people you need to know. And then he pitched a couple of regional and then a national golf magazines, print and online. And he got two out of the three pitches, he had a “yes” within one day.

Doug: Wow.

Susie: I know. And his testimonial for us was, “I can't believe that they want to hear from little old me.” And I'm like, well that's the thing. It's not a little old you.  It's “expert” you. And media needs experts. So it's just like letting it happen.

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HOW TO GET ARTICLES PUBLISHED BY MAJOR PUBLISHERS

[just click to tweet]

HOW TO GET ARTICLES PUBLISHED BY MAJOR PUBLISHERS

Major media outlets have spent millions building their authority. In an instant when your article is featured that is fully lent to you.

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Doug: Now in terms of value, I mean what sort of retail value? If I was to buy that media, would I have to spend to get that coverage?

Susie: Oh Doug, I love that question. I mean, it's a lot, right? I mean if you look at a publicist typically they sought a minimum $10k per month retainer, minimum six months. So like it's a 60 K investment and there are no guarantees. And I understand that because nothing can be guaranteed in this world. But when you think about it, I was reading, I mean not to speak about politics again, but I was reading about a politician we all know who just by gaming the media had $200 million worth of advertising free. By coming out with some short statements. I mean it's hard to put like money on it. But if you think about how much to take out a third of a page ad in a magazine, in a national magazine.

Doug: Sure, yeah. You go look at one of the big magazines and you're going to spend 25, 30, 40, 50,000, maybe 100,000 dollars to get a page.

Susie: Exactly. And one of the pieces that I love to share and talk about because I always talk about, you know, it's good to have a bold perspective. And one of the pieces that I wrote was for Business Insider who has a huge audience. And it was about either why working nine to five, buying a home and putting money in a 401k won't make you rich. Which is very contrarian, to the American way of doing things. And it had nearly 2 million views. I mean what's 2 million based on like a CPM for a business audience. Like that's a lot and then it linked to my book, it naturally sold a lot of books. And it was actually an excerpt from the book. So it wasn't even… [crosstalk 00:22:02]

Doug: Well I think the other thing you said is that you are being authentic so you had a contrarian view. So if you think of guys like Gary Vaynerchuk, I mean he's built this amazing big brand by posting content. And he just tells people what he thinks. And if you don't like it, just go away. Don't listen to him.

Susie: Exactly. And he gets a lot of free media coverage too because he's confident being unique and having this bold perspective. And this bold perspective, I mean, it doesn't have to be anything crazy, right? You don't have to be like really wonky out there. You can write a piece, you know, I wake up at 9:00 AM and that's what makes me rich. You know, [inaudible 00:22:31] like I wake up at 4:30 and I meditate for two hours and. I just read today the Jennifer Aniston makes up at 9:00 AM and I was like, “That's actually a piece.” I mean why not be a late riser? Because again, everyone thinks, “Oh, the early bird catches the worm, have to be…” What that's not true? Of course, it's not true. It's just no one's maybe spoken about this side of it before.

Doug: Yeah. I mean that was the whole Tim Ferriss' book, The Four Hour Work Week, people said, you can't do that. So, well okay, fine. You probably can't work four hours a week, but you certainly don't need to work 60, 70, 80 hours a week. What's wrong with working two days a week and taking five days off.

Susie: Exactly. And I actually read a piece too recently Doug, but this woman coach came out saying anyone who walks more than 40 hours a week is completely sloppy. They're lazy. They're inefficient. They're thinking too much. It's nonsense. And I mean that's pretty bold because people pride themselves on their 70-hour workweek.

Doug: Yeah. Yeah. It's a badge of honor. Like, look at me. I never see my family and I'm just waiting for a heart attack.

Susie: I know. Congratulations.

Doug: Good for you.

Susie: I know. So it's like, but then I think there's a space for everything. Arianna Huffington says that we spend our lives working on our resume where we should also be thinking about our eulogies. And I really liked that because it's not just like, oh, promotion this, that, awards. It's like, what people are going to say about you? And I just think that there's… I mean, whatever your point of view is, again, it doesn't have to be something really scary to put out there. But you have a different point of view on how some people think maybe there's a child-rearing method that you don't agree with, right? Or maybe there's a popular diet that you don't agree with.

Maybe there's… There was another piece that I read recently which I thought was really interesting. This guy gave up alcohol for three or four years. He's like, “I'm excited to go back.” And it's like typically the wisdom would be, “Oh, stay where you are.” And he's like, “No, I didn't give up because of addiction I just gave up out of curiosity and I'm really happy to be drinking again.” So again, I mean there are so many different points of view and whatever your different point of view is that's what makes you unique. And sharing it is not only fun but you find the right people who are like you and they want more from you.

Doug: Well and I think it makes as you said, it makes the relationship… You've got a relationship with a reporter, it makes it a little bit more authentic and you can go deeper and get past just may be the one piece. In the media buying side, I often will hire writers to write long-form direct copy. And what I found was I had one writer that would write kind of generally accepted content. So he wouldn't ruffle any feathers and I had somebody else who wrote kind of a contrarian review and I bought exactly the same media for these guys. And we ran two campaigns side by side and the contrarian guy crushed it.

Because our feedback was that people either loved him or hated him. The people who loved them really loved them. And the other guy, nobody really cared about. He was just gray and he blended in. So that was an experience for us in terms of writing. That was for paid stuff and got a better response. It wasn't crazy stuff. It was just more focused, not afraid to say, this is what I believe. You know, you might offend somebody. Well, so what?

Susie: So what? Exactly. I mean you can live your life worrying about that or you can do your work and the right people will find you. I think it's a great shortcut to getting the noise out of your life. So for example, when I've written about divorce, essentially my message is always optimistic. But I mean not to, again, to make this overly simple, but like after divorce there's life, it's okay. Like you can survive and I have a positive take on it. I have a lot of hate for that Doug. It was like people don't respect marriage. You know, Jesus doesn't like this.

And I'm like, look, respectfully, I have my beliefs and I don't agree. And that's okay. And probably, the people who are very, very traditional, they're just not my people and that's good to know. I don't want those people on my list, my followers. They can follow somebody else who's going to make sense for them. And we're all allowed to do this in this world. Right? We're all allowed to find the people who make sense for us and to know that some people aren't our people and to just like love them anyway. But just like not have them in a media sphere. And I think that that's cool.

Doug: And if I don't like your content, I can unfollow you on Twitter and I can unsubscribe from your email list. I mean I changed the way I wrote my email list after interviewing a content writer last year. Just to go less, less business and more personal. And some people unsubscribed and I did a podcast about, I went, “This is great news.” It helps my deliverability metrics because it shows I have a more responsive audience.

So if you don't like my stuff, feel free to just unsubscribe. No hard feelings. Just get off my list and go find a list that's providing content that you like.

Susie: Yeah, I say that my unsubscribe box, I mean it's like, I say something like, “Oh no, please don't go.” Or something like that. And then I say don't worry, you can always come back. I mean love, right? Like, let's say I think I post a meme, like a funny Adele meme or something. But it's like yeah, that's the thing. You know, you just have to worry about the people who're going to need you and like want your stuff. And when it comes to focus, that's also another good point that you made because often the kind of general high-level stuff…

Often when people join my course for the first time, their ideas initially can be a little bit more broad, right? Like Five Ways to be Happier or you know, Five Ways to Find Love. And so consider it my job to help them really tighten that up. So instead of saying Five Ways to Find Love, you want to be more specific to find those people, right? So maybe Five Ways to Find Love After 40. Or Five Ways to Find Love After Moving City or Five Ways to Find Love as a Christian. Like, or whatever it may be. Because however more specific you are the right people will just flock to you.

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Doug: Or the number one thing to lose in order to have everything you want.

Susie: Precisely. Yes. Or why I'm not getting a second date? The biggest mistake you're making. Do you know what I mean? There are so many fun ways to slice ideas.

Doug: Saturday Night at Home Suck.

Susie: Oh, I think I wrote that one.

Doug: I think you're saying you wrote both of those.

Susie: Oh my god, well there you go. I can't even remember all my content now. Why Your Saturday Nights at Home Suck. And that was a piece about FOMO. Right? I love how you've been through the archives. How cool.

Doug: Yeah. The thing I see in… The most FOMO I see in my place now is my youngest grandson, who's just turned one and you know, he doesn't want to miss anything in the house. If there's a noise, he doesn't… It doesn't matter what he's doing. And he needs a look. It's like, yeah, FOMO. Don't want to miss out.

Susie: Aw so sweet.

Doug: So to steal a Tim Ferriss question seeing as I brought him up. One of the questions he had asked in one of his books was, “What's the bad advice that you hear?” So you're out, you know, you're doing lots of social stuff I'm assuming based on the business that you're in. And so you overhear a conversation and what's the one thing that you just go, “Man, I wish I could just go over there and slap them for that?”

Susie: Okay, let me think. Some bad business advice. I mean there's a lot isn't there, out there?

Doug: Because you're saying that you know, this isn't difficult. I mean there's a process to follow. You don't need to be an expert. There is no special ladder. You don't need to have all the contacts. There's a very simple plan that as a business owner that, if you want to, give your self permission to, you can do this.

Susie: I think that a piece of bad advice to get thrown around a lot because it's also just conventional wisdom now is that you really have to work very, very hard if you're going to be successful. Like it's a grind, your eyes will bleed at night because you can't sleep. It's kind of like this someone's shouting at you like hustle, hustle, hustle. Like I think that that is bad advice. It's not true. And kind of agreeing with the coach that I mentioned a little bit earlier, I mean so much of that is just based around like nonsense. I saw it in my corporate job so much when I would always leave on time, and I've always hit my sales goals and people are at the office late. They were just wasting their time. I don't know what they're doing. But I just think that this kind of, you know, you've got to work hard, like just go to like stay in the game and like sweat, sweat, sweat. I think that's terrible advice.

Doug: And what's the bad advice around PR? So for the people that listen to podcast sitting and thinking, “Hey that all sounds really good. It sounds good to you. You're very articulate. You've got experience doing this. I've never done it before.” What sort of bad advice are they listening to that's causing them to have that doubt?

Susie: I mean, again, there's so much. I think with the bad advice, some bad advice is that you have to have formal qualifications to be recognized as an expert. Whereas the truth is once you start creating content more and more and being out there, that is how you become an expert.

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Doug: Great. There you go. You know the other thing, the nice thing is its kind of like your testimony. I mean it's yours and it's personal. So if we're going to talk about science or something where it's debatable, but when you're talking about your personal experience where you have expertise, whether like you said it's golfing or divorce or whatever it is, I mean that's your life experience and it's really not up for people to say that's not true.

Susie: Precisely. And look there is a place for traditional experts. For example, this is an example that I give often. If a woman experiences a miscarriage, very, very common, right? There is a place for medical professionals. You want a doctor to tell you what's happening with your body, what to expect, steps to take. But you want to hear from another woman who's been where you are. You want to hear the personal story.

Same if you've got a lot of debt and you're in the process of getting out of debt, there is a place where financial experts who know all the facts and then you also want to hear from somebody who was in debt and who got out of debt. On a human level like speaking about like what they went through day to day, what they had to overcome emotionally. We are all humans, Doug, at the end of it, all right? There's a lot of information. Information is important and powerful, but at the end of it, we want it to be understood and we want to feel less afraid and we need people who are a little bit farther along than us to show us the way.

Doug: Yeah, exactly. A little bit further along and that's why I really appreciate your Facebook group because there's so much interaction and people are so just honest and out there, Here's where I am, this is what I'm struggling with, this is what I need to do, or this is what I've done.” And it's an encouragement, even if they're not in the same industry that you're in that you're just listening to people. I struggle with that or I have that doubt or I wasn't sure how to do this. And it's just building… It's a community really.

Susie: Yeah, absolutely. I think there's so much power in that, right? Again, we can all be in different fields. Yin on a side hustle, right? But the things that we experienced, day to day are the same, right? We experience a lot of fear. We experience a lot of doubt. We experience frustration and overwhelm. So again, at the end of it all, we're just here to help each other, right? And if we can make that easier, that process easier and provide steps for each other. And just take anything complicated out. Make it as simple as possible. I think that that's… I mean that's a winning strategy.

Doug: Absolutely. There you go. So I'm going to be respectful of your time, but I'm going to ask you two questions. One is going to help me and one's going to help you. The first one is who's the one guest I absolutely have to have on my podcast?

Susie: Oh, one guest, Ruth Soukop. I mean she's an incredible business owner and she had a book out this year in her [inaudible 00:33:48] is the thing, it's called Do It Scared. And she's a businesswoman I really look up to.

Doug: Okay, if you could make an introduction that'd be amazing. And I'll reach out to her and get on the podcast. And then what I can do for you is can you tell our listeners where's the best place to learn more about you, connect with you and just follow and see what you're doing?

Susie: Certainly. So if you're interested in publicity and media and just getting a good free workshop to kind of understand how it works behind the scenes, you can check out getrockstarpr.com. And just my general website with my free weekly confidence injections and videos. You can head to susiemoore.com.

Doug: Excellent. Hey, thanks so much. I had a great time.

Susie: Thank you. This was fun. This was so much fun. Thank you so much for having me.

Doug: So there you go listeners. I hope that a lot of the stuff that Susie said connected with you, I followed her for a while. I love what she's doing. I am a paid client. I do subscribe to and have bought some of her training and have really enjoyed it. And so I was so excited to reach out to her and just have her share what she's doing with you. And I can just say that everything that she shared with me and the information with her course has been top-notch. I hope that you head over to the show notes, we'll make sure that we transcribe these and we'll have the links to her website and to her PR site as well. So thanks again for tuning in. I look forward to serving you in our next episode.

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