HOW TO GET MORE ROI FROM YOUR PR

Tips on how to get more ROI from your PR with Christina Nicholson

  • To get more ROI from your PR stop thinking about promoting yourself and start thinking about just giving the media what they want and what they need.
  • So the bad pitches are the overly promotional ones, which unfortunately for some reason is what most people do.
  • So you need to set yourself up not just on your own social media and on your own websites as an expert in your industry, but you need to be getting on podcasts.
  • And then when you're getting those media hits, no matter how big or small, you need to be turning around on your social media and constantly sharing them.
  • I think the first thing you want to do is you want to be clear on your goals, like don't get media for the sake of getting media.
  • I always say start with local because you're more newsworthy where you are local.
  • I think the biggest myth is that people think that they need a big brand with a lot of money to earn TV exposure or exposure in any media outlet, really.
  • You have to make yourself accessible ASAP. And then you just want to give them everything they want and everything they need on a silver platter.

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HOW TO GET MORE ROI FROM YOUR PR

[just click to tweet]

HOW TO GET MORE ROI FROM YOUR PR

To get more ROI from your PR stop thinking about promoting yourself and start thinking about just giving the media what they want and what they need.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Doug: Well, welcome back listeners to another episode of Real Marketing Real Fast. If you'd like to have your business exposed and put in front of millions of ideal customers in minutes instead of months, you want to tune into today's episode. My guest today is Christina Nicholson and she is a marketing expert in dealing with the media and her company is called Media Maven. If you want to tune into her podcasts, you can listen to her podcast at Become a Media Maven. So that's exactly what Christina does, she is a television host and she helps bloggers and business owners grow their audience by reaching thousands and millions of listeners and viewers and getting them in front of their ideal customers and clients.

Doug: And she does this in minutes instead of months through the power of traditional media without spending big advertising dollars. Be sure to listen to her biggest myth around this, and the myth is that I'm not ready. So she's going to share with you and me today that we're all ready, and that we could be doing this today in our business without writing a check, this is earned media.

Doug: So you can see Christina in front of the camera as a host on Lifetime TV, in national commercials as well as her work online in the HuffPost Thrive Global Inc Magazine and Fast Company. Christina also has a local lifestyle and family blog called Christina All Day. She lives in South Florida with her husband and two children, and she was an absolute delight and a pleasure to have on the podcast today. So welcome to the Real Marketing Real Fast Podcast today.

Doug: Well, welcome to the podcast today, Christina. I'm super excited to have you share your superpower on how you help companies and entrepreneurs grow their business.

Christina N.: I'm so happy to be here, Doug. Thanks for having me.

Doug: So do you want to fill us in just a little bit of your background on how you started and how you move to where you are today?

Christina N.: Yeah, sure. So I started in TV, I was a TV reporter and anchor for about 10 years. And while I was in that role, I was getting pitched by a lot of publicists and a lot of business owners. And most of what they pitched me was ignored because it was bad, honestly, it was very clear that a lot of these people did not understand how the media industry worked. They've never been in a newsroom or worked in a newsroom to know how we put our stories together, what we needed and what we wanted.

Christina N.: So fast forward a couple of kids later, I wanted a more flexible schedule, I thought working at a PR agency would give me that flexible schedule after six months of doing that, I realized that did not give me the flexible schedule that I wanted. So I started my own business and it started out where I just wanted to be, I called myself a professional freelancer.

Christina N.: And I just wanted to take side jobs from PR agencies or work with super small business owners, but one thing led to another. I started growing, I started needing help and I slowly built a team. And now I have an agency and I love the way my agency is run because I don't have an office, I don't have that kind of overhead. And I also have a team of independent contractors, so I'm not limited to just people within a 10, 20-mile radius of where I am. I work with the best from around the country and I'm super excited about the way things are going and it's been about four years now.

Doug: Well congratulations. Good for you. It's great to have that flexibility, especially with a family and have a little bit more work-life balance.

Christina N.: Yes, and I love it because of what I do, there's so much overlap in the media with social media and earned media and blogging and Instagram marketing that I can make my kids part of my work. So like the work-life balance, it's like, well sometimes it's worked but my kids are here and they're helping me work and that's also my life, so much overlap.

Doug: Yeah. I just sent a note off to somebody who said, “I love when my grandson comes over to visit except for Thursdays,” because Thursdays is my podcast day. So a two-year-old, when I'm trying to keep my office quiet, isn't ideal.

Christina N.: Yeah. That's so funny. Yeah, I also batch my days too. Thursdays are my YouTube days and Tuesdays are my podcast days, I love it.

Doug: They are, I noticed that because I noticed this Thursday, just hours ago you put out a brand new video on YouTube.

Christina N.: Yes, the new videos come out on Thursdays, I find it like when you batch your days and you theme your days, you feel so much more organized and you get so much more done.

Doug: Yeah, and I think it helps with content production. So let's dive into what your expertise is. So where do you want to start? Do you wanna start with bad pitches or do you want to start with like a thousand-foot view of what business owners and/or marketing type should be looking at?

Christina N.: Okay, so I think we can kind of tackle both of those in one. Let me tell you what makes the pitches bad, and that'll kind of give them an idea of what they can look at. So the bad pitches are the overly promotional ones, which unfortunately for some reason is what most people do. Unless you are a Gary Vaynerchuk or Mark Zuckerberg, nobody wants to promote you. They don't care about giving you this big feature on TV or in a newspaper or in a magazine or online.

Christina N.: Just because you are not a big deal, you're not Oprah. So stop thinking about promoting yourself and start thinking about just giving the media, whether it'd be a journalist, an editor, a booker, whoever it is, just give them what they want and give them what they need. Sometimes, it's just a matter of there's breaking news and everybody's talking about, I don't know, everybody's talking about the housing market crash for example.

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HOW TO GET MORE ROI FROM YOUR PR

[just click to tweet]

HOW TO GET MORE ROI FROM YOUR PR

To get more ROI from your PR stop thinking about promoting yourself and start thinking about just giving the media what they want and what they need.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Christina N.: Let's say, something like that just happened and prices are dropping and the mortgage rates are changing, and this and that. Okay, so if you're an expert on that, if you're in real estate or if you're in finance or heck, even if you're in interior design, you know this is something that people are talking about. So how can you lend your expertise? How can you help them tell their story? What angles could you offer them?

Christina N.: That's an example of giving the media what they want and what they need and that's how you're going to get coverage. Too many people, they like go in for the kill right away, like, well, I'm trying to promote myself so I'm going to pitch myself like this because this is the way I'm going to get the most promotion. When no matter what, if you get the coverage and you are lending your expertise and you're helping the journalists do their job, you're going to get your name out there.

Christina N.: Maybe you'll get a backlink to your website, maybe they'll share your picture or a link to one of your handles on a social media platform. You're going to get the promotion by default, but when you try to get it like hardcore right out the gate like, look at me, look at me. You're just going to get ignored and you're going to end up getting nothing.

Doug: Yeah, and that's the promotion you want. I'll show you simply, you just write a check it's called advertising.

Christina N.: Exactly. Exactly. And that's why people advertise because yes, you can get exactly what you want, you can have anybody say what they want, you can share the images and all of that. But like you said, you have to write a check.

Doug: Yep. No, I know there's timely, what you're talking about now is kind of timely, I sometimes call that news hacking. So there's a breaking article, I'm on the train and the way in the city I see it, I read it, I fall in the reporter and say, “Hey, I have a client that's in that exact space, boom,” at that afternoon shows up the media with a photographer.

Doug: But what about just general media when you try to help people become more well-known or to promote a book? Because I did listen to your stuff so I think I've got an idea of what direction you might call on that, but what sort of advice do you give people in that time?

Christina N.: That is all about promoting yourself as an expert in your industry, you are just going to share all of your knowledge all the time and that's where you're going to get those quotes, and that's where you're going to become an asset on a podcast interview like this one.

Christina N.: So anything you have to share all of your knowledge, you want to share it, like don't hold back because it's in a book and you want people to buy the book. Like, we all know everything about Oprah Winfrey at this point, but if she writes a book and sells it, we're all going to buy it anyway because we know like and trust her.

Christina N.: So you need to set yourself up not just on your own social media and on your own websites as an expert in your industry, but you need to be getting on podcasts. You need to be using resources like HARO Help A Reporter Out and pitching yourself to the media to get those quotes and backlinks as an expert in your industry.

Christina N.: And so many people don't do this because they say, “Oh, well, I don't want just one quo, I want a bigger feature.” Well, you're not going to get that bigger feature if you don't have a lot of little media hits on the way. It's like when people reach out to me and they say, “I want to be on the Today Show or I want to be on Good Morning America,” and I say, “Great, what local TV have you done?” And they say, “None. I haven't done any local TV.” And I'm like, “Well, if nobody cares to cover you locally, why should the national media cover you?”

Doug: Yeah, they're not going to let take the risk.

Christina N.: Exactly, exactly, because that makes them look bad. So you really just have to be constantly promoting yourself as an expert in your industry. And then when you're getting those media hits, no matter how big or small, you need to be turning around on your social media and constantly sharing them. Because honestly, that's where you're going to see the ROI.

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HOW TO GET MORE ROI FROM YOUR PR

[just click to tweet]

HOW TO GET MORE ROI FROM YOUR PR

To get more ROI from your PR stop thinking about promoting yourself and start thinking about just giving the media what they want and what they need.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Christina N.: Everybody makes the mistake of getting coverage on a platform, whether it be a podcast or maybe it's an article in Inc. Magazine and they say, “Oh, well everybody who listened to that podcast, they heard it, they can come back and find me, or everybody who read that article can come back and find me.”

Christina N.: Well, that's not the case, you have to continue to share that podcast interview. You have to continue to share that article that you were named in, in Inc. Magazine because people will see you sharing it over and over again and then you'll be top of mind. And then when they're ready for something that you could help them with, whether it be a service or a product, then they're going to reach out to you.

Doug: Yeah, they don't understand why people don't re-share. I call it amplification, I mean you get an article, you get written up at Inc. Magazine and I was talking to one of my buddies who had got this great feature and I said, “Well you know that you can rent the email list from Forbes, so why wouldn't you rent the Forbes list and drive them to the Inc. Magazine article?” You're just really trying to get more eyeballs on third-party media because it's more credible than it is me writing copy for a landing page.

Christina N.: Exactly. It's so much more credible because you're using that source that's already known, liked and trusted. It's not you telling everybody you're great, it's somebody else telling everybody you're great. So you constantly need to be sharing that, and I think the number one mistake people make outside of being overly promotional and their reach outs are when they get that media hit, they do nothing with it, they don't leverage it or amplify it.

Doug: Yeah, I think it was Kevin Harrington, I had interviewed him and he talked about a TV segment they were trying to do in it, it took readjusting their thinking and their pitch. So there was a more of a benefit and interaction with the audience before they could actually get the traction that they wanted.

Christina N.: Yeah, it definitely takes time, I think that's also a very hard part is because again, you're not paying for this, you're trying to convince the media that it's worthy of coverage. So you have to have so many different elements, you have to make sure you're hitting the journalist at the right time with the right angle. And you should always be changing it up like you can't pitch the same thing all day every day to the same people.

Christina N.: So I always tell people like after three or four weeks, your pitches probably stale, it's probably old. The media doesn't have a reason to do it right now, so you have to always be changing it up.

Doug: So where do you start with people? So you have somebody come to you and they've got a business, they've got some success and they say, “Hey, I really want to ramp it up and take it to the next level.” What's your starting point?

Christina N.: I think the first thing you want to do is you want to be clear on your goals, like don't get media for the sake of getting media. Who are you trying to get in front of? Who is your audience? Once you're clear on that, you need to look at what's your audience watching, what are they listening to? And I always use the example of a client that I had who created a running app, and we got them on the Today Show, which is huge. Millions of people watch the Today Show and it has that great brand recognition, obviously just telling people, “Hey, we were featured on the Today Show,” it's huge, huge for the credibility, huge for their authority.

Christina N.: However, where they saw the most ROI was when they got in Runner's World. It was on the website, it was a full page spread in the Runner's World Magazine and because they were a running app, obviously everybody reading Runner's World was interested in it. So even though we all know the Today Show and some of us don't know Runner's World. Runner's World was more beneficial because that's where their audience was.

Doug: Sure.

Christina N.: So try not to get all caught up in like the glitz and the glamor of the Today Show, but instead get really focused on where your audiences, and if it's Runner's World, then focus on getting there because at the end of the day, that's where we're going to see the quicker ROI. I do think something like the Today Show could help you get an ROI because if you share it consistently, telling people you've been on the Today Show that's going to impress people and that makes your app stand out more than others who may be weren't featured on the Today Show.

Christina N.: But I think where you're going to start is, where do I want to be? Where's my audience? What are they watching? What are they reading? What are they listening to? And then all of your goals after that as far as obtaining the media should fall into place based on that one thing.

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HOW TO GET MORE ROI FROM YOUR PR

[just click to tweet]

HOW TO GET MORE ROI FROM YOUR PR

To get more ROI from your PR stop thinking about promoting yourself and start thinking about just giving the media what they want and what they need.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Doug: Right. So if you've identified where your audience is, would it be easier for entrepreneur business marketer to approach the Runner's World? I'm assuming they're gonna get fewer pitches than the Today Show.

Christina N.: Exactly. Not only do they get fewer pitches, but they're going to be more interested in your pitch because their audience is going to be more interested in it. The Today Show, I mean, gosh, they cover everything, everything you could think of they could cover.

Christina N.: So it's harder to find the right person to reach out to. At Runner's World, everybody has niched and running. So you can pitch a variety of different people in a variety of niches with the same goal, exposure for your brand.

Doug: Yeah. That's so cool. I mean, it really comes back to basic marketing like who's your customer and where are they?

Christina N.: It does, and I think people get, they get a little sidetracked because they see the big names of the Today Show and Good Morning America. And yeah, the big ones are cool, but at the end of the day, you don't want to get the publicity to get the publicity, you want to get the publicity to turn it into profit.

Doug: No. When you help people do that, do you generally help them establish a plan where you said that they may start with local and then there's actually a marketing plan to move them from local into more national?

Christina N.: Yeah, I always say start with local even if you're a national brand, even if you don't necessarily do work locally, where you are, you always want to start local because you're more newsworthy where you are local. So for example, if I do something in my business or say I write a book, I just came out with a book, well I'm going to be more newsworthy here in south Florida because it's where I live, I'm a local author, then I would be where you are in Vancouver, Doug.

Christina N.: Like why would people in Vancouver care that somebody in south Florida wrote a book? Like who cares? But because I'm here in south Florida, I'm local to the area, I'm like a local author. So that's why you should always start local, you're more newsworthy where you are. And then from there you just kind of branch out, start with where you are and then look at the different industries and the different niches where you could get coverage.

Christina N.: So if you're in the health industry, start local, start with local health, maybe start with local business. If you're a business owner then obviously you can start with health and business, and then kind of branch out. Then let's look at national stuff. Who's covering health nationally? And then that's kind of how you branch out from local to national, and even with local stuff like that can go national.

Christina N.: I know many times when I was working at the local NBC affiliate, I would do stories and it would get picked up by the national NBC outlet, and you would see it on the evening news or you would see it on the Today Show because it got picked up by the national outlet. Remember, everything feeds somewhere. The example that I gave with the guys who have the running app, I got them on local TV in Washington DC that impressed the Washington Post. So I got them in the Washington Post.

Christina N.: Well, once something's in the Washington Post, it gets picked up everywhere. So from there, they were in the Chicago Tribune and then they got, I can even tell you dozens and dozens of links to different stories all across the country because they ended up in the Washington Post. So when I say start local but it doesn't mean you're going to stay local for very long.

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HOW TO GET MORE ROI FROM YOUR PR

[just click to tweet]

HOW TO GET MORE ROI FROM YOUR PR

To get more ROI from your PR stop thinking about promoting yourself and start thinking about just giving the media what they want and what they need.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Doug: Well and I think, I'll get you to expand on the everything feed somewhere because I remember once somebody said, “Hey, there's this great article I just saw on the business page and it was a project we're working on and it came from a local newspaper. So it came from a very small town, a local newspaper,” and as you said, one of the bigger publications picked it up. They didn't phone and say, “We're going to pick it up.” It just showed up.

Christina N.: Yeah, and that happens because you don't know what's going on in other cities or around the country like it could be a slow news day, and somebody has some space to fail or they have some time to fail. And the other thing is, is that, you know, it's all in the eyes of the person receiving the information.

Christina N.: You could pitch somebody a great story and maybe they're having a bad day. The next week, you could pitch this same person, the same story, and maybe they just had an event happened in their life so they're more interested in your story because it's more relative. So the tricky thing about earning media is that there's no right or wrong, there's really just a lot of strategy and planning and trial and error that needs to take place.

Christina N.: So just because one person doesn't like something that doesn't mean somebody else isn't going to like the exact same thing.

Doug: Yeah, fair enough. And like you said, if somebody else picks it up, it reduces the risk in republishing it, it saves the time to do the research and the background.

Christina N.: Yeah, exactly, there's just so much opportunity and there are so many aggregators. I remember when I was on TV, we would always have access to everything and all of the NBC's across the country to fill time. You know, I mean, I know recently I just did a segment and it was around baby shower gifts because we use the angle of Megan and Harry are getting ready to have a baby, so let's do a baby shower gift segment.

Christina N.: And it just so happened that that day one of the anchors ended up having her baby. So there was like a few different stories on babies and baby gifts and baby showers and a new mom and this and that. So like you may think it's not a good time for a story but if an anchor at a TV station just had a baby, then maybe it's a perfect time for you and your story if that's your niche.

Doug: Yup, that totally makes sense. So do you want to share a success story with a client that you've worked with?

Christina N.: Sure. I mean I have a few, I think the low hanging fruit and one that can be relatable to a lot of people, it's focusing on awareness days. Now, I did not realize it until I got into PR that this is like a publicist dream like there's a National Pi Day, a National Water Day, Tech-Free Day, whatever it is, all the things. People are going to do stories on those, people are going to be posting on social media and there's going to be hashtag hi, hashtag use, around those kinds of days. And that's a really good opportunity for you to get coverage. Obviously, local TV is my jam.

Christina N.: I come from local TV so the morning shows, the afternoon shows they always bringing guests, they need a few minutes to fill here and there. So if you can capitalize on one of those days, you're really gonna get a lot of coverage. I really liked working with my local restaurants down here in South Florida. I have a restaurant called I Heart Mac & Cheese, it's like a chipotle for mac & cheese, and it is national mac & cheese day on July 14th. And I got them in the West Palm Beach TV market and the Fort Lauderdale, Miami TV market and two different days in that week.

Christina N.: And they ended up being so busy at one of their stores that they ended up running out of mac & cheese that night.

Doug: That's great.

Christina N.: I've done the same thing with the Mexican restaurant on a Taco Tuesday, it was recently National Margarita Day, I had a Mexican restaurant making Margaritas on TV. I mentioned National Pi Day. Now, this is where you think outside the box. So National Pi Day, PI as in P-I 3.14 that's on March 14th. So I had an Italian restaurant and we said, “Okay, well how about we make it like Pizza Pie Day?” So National Pi Day, I had a chef come on and make pizza pie on National Pi Day. So it's really just using silly awareness days like that, and there is an Awareness Day for everything to use, to come up with a pitch and get some publicity for it.

Doug: Well, it makes it more relevant. My daughter's a pastry chef and she works at a pie shop called The Pie Hole. And so yeah, I was aware of Pie Day because I saw their social media posts go out, stuff your pie hole, it's Pie Day.

Christina N.: That's cute. Yeah, see, that's clever. And people like that stuff like it makes it fun, it makes things timely. And when you're timely like that, and you send a pitch to a journalist you're like, “Oh, I have to do this story right now because if I don't do this right now I'm going to miss my opportunity because it's only National Pie Day once a year.”

Doug: Yeah, but like I call it calendar marketing I mean there are events that happen all year long and if you get them in your calendar, you know what events are happening in your city, your town, where you are and there are lots of ways to like you said to participate and to leverage that information.

Christina N.: Exactly.

Doug: So can you share with us a kind of a myth around the PR? Like I hear lots of stuff on both sides of PR, I think PR is great, I'd have PR before by advertising all day long because like you said it converts better. But what's some of the pushback that you hear from, not necessarily people in your industry but by businesses?

Christina N.: Okay, I think the biggest myth is that people think that they need a big brand with a lot of money to earn TV exposure or exposure in any media outlet, really. They look at people and they put them on this pedestal which isn't necessarily true. They're not on a pedestal at all. Anybody can earn that coverage, but for some reason, we look at people in the media and they're like, “Oh, they must be really successful because they're there, they must make a lot of money, they must be a big brand.”

Christina N.: Like you have that perception, that's why you want that coverage because you want people to have that perception of you. But everybody gives, I shouldn't say everybody, but a lot of people, they give me the excuse that they're not ready for it. “I'm not ready. I'm not ready.” I'm like, “Well, why aren't you ready?” Well, and then they just make up these excuses that don't make any sense to me and I always say, “Are you ready for a new client today? Are you ready for a new customer?”

Doug: That's a great question.

Christina N.: They always yes. They always say yes. And then I'm like, “Okay, well then why aren't you putting yourself out there?” These people can't do business with you if they don't know about you. You have the expertise, you have something you can talk about. This person in the media wants to talk about it. So just go and talk about it with them. Like don't overthink it, don't make up these stories in your head that you're not ready and somebody more deserving should be there because you can be there and you can build your business through these platforms if you put yourself out there. It's a total mindset thing, it's not a business thing at all.

Doug: So once you come to that and you say, “Okay, it makes sense, I'm ready, I'll do this, I'll put myself out there.” And then the good news, the phone rings, you get an email,

Christina N.: Then you got to jump.

Doug: Absolutely. How do you help people get ready for that? Because that's a totally different animal. I mean talking to a customer, if the customer is not happy, the customer may leave. But when you're talking to the media, you obviously don't want to blow it and you want to make sure you do a good job of representing your company, your brand or your knowledge.

Christina N.: Yeah, I think the first thing you have to do is jump on it. So many people, they're like, “Okay, well let me get everything ready.” And it's like, no, you have to jump on it because the media have deadlines. When I would go into work at 9:00 in the morning, I had to turn a story for the 5:00 PM news. And I remember people would send pitches and I would say, “Okay great. We're coming over now to do it.”

Christina N.: And they would say, “Oh no, no, we're not ready yet.” Give us a couple of days.” And I'm like, “Are you kidding me? No, that's not how it works.”

Doug: We're on our way, we're at the front door, open the door.

Christina N.: Exactly, so you have to make yourself accessible ASAP. And then you just want to give them everything they want and everything they need on a silver platter. Whenever I book anything for TV, I always write the script for the producer and send it to her. I always write the script for the person handling the website and send it to him because I want to make sure that that stuff gets on the website with a back link to my website.

Christina N.: So I'm going to write it for them because let me tell you, people in the media, they are so overworked and underpaid today. So you just want to give them everything they want and everything they need, how can you make their life easier? You tell them, “Let me know who I should tag on social media because when this is done and when it's published or when it airs, I want to share it with everybody. So who should I tag?”

Christina N.: You just want to really like be their servant because they're serving you by giving you the time of day to share your message with their audience because that can do wonders for your business and they know it.

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HOW TO GET MORE ROI FROM YOUR PR

[just click to tweet]

HOW TO GET MORE ROI FROM YOUR PR

To get more ROI from your PR stop thinking about promoting yourself and start thinking about just giving the media what they want and what they need.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Doug: Yeah. And like you said, the industry is overworked. I mean that I just saw article locally where I live, say the national post say, “Hey, all these journalists are being laid off so we don't want businesses advertising on Facebook and Google anymore because that's the issue.” And then I read in MuckRock that buzz feed was laying off journalists as well. So you're right, so there are fewer people, there are fewer resources, they're pressed to do more with less. And I guess the easier we can make their job, the better it is for everyone.

Christina N.: Exactly, because I'm more likely as a journalist to help you give you coverage if you're going to help me do my job.

Doug: Yeah, I think the oddest coverage I ever had was I was doing a lot of work in the retail restaurant business, and I sent a note to a journalist who was covering the space and I said, “I have a filing cabinet full of proprietary information in this space that we've worked on for years. And if anytime you need access to that, just call me.” And we got a call and they get a picture, an article in front of somebody else's franchise, not one that we had built, but we got the coverage because we offered up the information and that was basically the pitcher wasn't Hayes feature us. It's like, “I have a whole bunch of information that can help you if you need it anytime call.”

Christina N.: Yeah, exactly. And then when you do that they are going to come back to you again over and over again, that's how you get those recurring segments on TV or that's how you get asked to be a contributor to an online outlet because you are helping them do their job.

Doug: So looking at what's happening in the media today and social and the digital space, what are you most excited about?

Christina N.: I think I am most excited about the fact that this is possible for anybody, the things are changing at lightning fast speeds, as you know. I mean, there are constantly things changing in the media industry, but because of that, it's more possible now than ever for people to earn exposure. I mean, we see how celebrities turned into celebrities just by being on social media like Justin Bieber was discovered on YouTube. And I'm sure there's countless of other examples I could use, but I think it's just the fact that you have the access to it, you just need the strategy.

Christina N.: Because I feel like when it comes to doing anything that you see other people doing online, it's almost like watching HDTV. Like you watch HDTV and you see people like doing a home renovation or even painting a wall and it looks so easy. So you're like, “Oh, let me try that.” And you're just doing what you see people do on TV, you're not seeing the behind the scenes of it all and you're like, “Oh my gosh, like after trying it,” you're like, “This is not easy at all. I need some help.”

Christina N.: So I think today it's so easy to get it done, you just need that help, it's not what it looks to be online, you're seeing the highlight reel, you're only seeing what's on the surface, the 5% that's on the surface, the 95% underneath is strategy that you're not privy to. But there are so many people who are now turning into coaching and mentoring and they can help you with that.

Christina N.: They've become successful and they can tell you how they become successful and how you can do it too. So I think that's something that a lot of people can benefit from, especially today. I know me and my industry, I started investing in coaching not too long ago and I don't think I will ever try anything on my own, I won't buy an online course unless I have access to the course creator to ask questions and learn more.

Christina N.: And I think today, no matter what you want to do, you can do that. But you just have to have the mindset where you feel like, “Okay, yes I can spend money and I can do this,” because other people have done it, other people have been successful with it. It's just a matter of getting that mindset right.

Christina N.: And I think I mentioned mindset before when people say, “Oh, I'm not ready for this media coverage, I can't do this or that.” But if you have the mindset that if you invest in a business and you invest in the right people, that you will grow personally and professionally, it will work. And today it's more possible than ever.

Doug: Well, and I think your comment around having access to the creator of the course is important because normally, you know when I'm looking at this, I'm looking at a people relationship as well. I mean, learning the information is one thing. But if I was to work with you, the advantage would be not only learning, taking your course, but leveraging your knowledge and your contacts because if I work well as a good student or a good client, I've got access to this big network that just showed up.

Christina N.: Yeah, exactly. And it's funny that you mentioned that because I'm on my third coaching program with my third coach, and it's funny because I was talking about it with somebody else who also is in different coaching programs and I said, “Okay, so this one was good because I really got the coach's knowledge, and then this other one was good because of the people actually in the mastermind. I got to make great connections and I got to meet a lot of really cool people.”

Christina N.: So it's almost like there's, I mean people say there's a season for everything, but there are different kinds of coaching programs and courses and learning for different people at different times that you can benefit from. And I feel like going into it, you really don't know what you're going to get out of it. And then you go into it and you're like, “Oh, I didn't join for the community but this community is super beneficial.”

Doug: Yeah, I just had that conversation last night, I was speaking in a podcasting event in San Diego at this time last year and I was saying to my wife, I said, “Wow, the people that I met there I've still stayed in contact with, there's been lots of events.” So I said, “I don't know whether it was the event, the organizer, the fact that they're podcasters, but there's just a different connection with the group of people, there was a small audience, but it's been just amazing.”

Christina N.: Yeah, and not just the coaching, but yeah, like the events. As you said, I never used to go to events before, but now I look at them in a different way, like I used to go to learn and now I go to see the people or sometimes I go to learn, it just depends. It's also different and once you get out there and you try a few different things and a few different ways with different people, you really start to see that.

Doug: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, with all the digital stuff we've got, I still like to talk to people face-to-face. There's no replacing that. So what's some of the bad advice you hear? Like what are the things that you hear when you're out at a cocktail party or a business event and someone's talking about PR that just kind of makes the hair on the back of your neck stand up?

Christina N.: A few things. I hate it when people say that it doesn't work and I'm like, “Okay, well why doesn't it work?” “Oh, well I got coverage here and nothing happened.” And it's like, “Okay, well I watch TV and I see a commercial and nine times out of 10 I don't go and buy whatever I see on the commercial, does that mean the commercial didn't work?”

Christina N.: Like people think they're going to put something out there and they're going to be featured and they're going to get something right away like their phones are going to be ringing off the hook. It used to be that you needed to see something like six, seven or eight times before people would make a purchase or not even make a purchase before they would convert to making a phone call or going on a website. But now with all of this stuff that we're inundated with online, it's going to be a lot more than six, seven or eight times.

Christina N.: I actually just sent an email to all my clients this morning and I shared a screen grab of something that a national magazine writer posted in a Facebook group that I'm in, and it was like, “People, tell your clients to share the stuff that we put them in on social media,” because when they share it on social media, they're going to make more money and we're going to cover them more.

Christina N.: So it's not a matter of, “Oh, I was on TV once, now my business is going to glow up.” It's a matter of I was on TV once, now I need to share it over and over again and now I need to get a whole bunch of other places because think of the way you consume content. You see something, it catches your interest, and then two minutes later you've forgotten about it because you've seen 10 things since then. So you constantly have to be doing this. You constantly have to be in people's faces because if not, you're going to be forgotten.

Christina N.: And the people who do that are the people who see a profit, the people who complain, and this is where it gets under my skin. It's like, “Well, I tried it once and nothing happened.” Like what kind of world are you living in, where you can keep getting exposure once and like big major things are going to happen like your expectations are just not right.

Doug: That's funny, I remember hearing Gary V talked about that. Someone said, “Facebook advertising doesn't work.” He said, “No, Facebook advertising works. It's just didn't work for you.”

Christina N.: Exactly, exactly. I mean you just have to do things in the right way at the right time and people just, it's a lot of education, it's a lot of education. I had a client once who we would get him media hits and then he would get mad because he didn't approve it beforehand. And I'm like, “You can't approve what a journalist is doing, it's her job.”

Doug: Yes, that's right.

Christina N.: “If you want to approve it, then you have to pay for it, and that's advertising.” It's crazy.

Doug: Well, I guess we've just forgotten, I mean, we talked before we got on air, you've got young kids and I've got grown kids and grandkids and so we as adults, we think, “Hey, we're going to try this once,” and if we don't get a result, we're going to be upset. And then you watch the kids as they're learning new things and they just try over and over and over and over again until it works.

Christina N.: Exactly. That's so true. I think as an adult, especially today, we just become like so impatient.

Doug: Yeah. I call it the microwave mentality, push the button, you want it right now.

Christina N.: That's true. That's true. It's like instant, not Instagram but instant right now.

Doug: And to your point, if you just think of the social media that we're all on, I mean how fast are the post scroll by for an Instagram and your following, even if you're only following back a few thousand people, it doesn't stay long. It just flows on by and if you're not looking at it at the time it comes by, it's gone.

Christina N.: And that's why I tell people, you have to not just share something on social media once, you have to share it over and over and over again because it is a constantly moving feed, and people are going to forget about it. Like even if somebody sees the same thing 10 times in one month, they're not going to remember the first nine times they saw it because they've seen 900 things since then.

Doug: Yeah. I've had clients say that “Hey, I wonder if she is my advertising,” I said, “Well why?” “Well, I'm getting bored with it.” I was like, “Well it's not for you. It's for the clients that have never seen it.” So I don't care if you're bored as long as it's converting, leave it alone.

Christina N.: That's true. I had somebody reached out to me about a Facebook ad, that my team was running once and she said, “I don't like the way this looks, it's very hard to read.” And then I told my team and I was like because it did honestly, it did look a little hard to read to me. And I told my team and my team was like, “Well that one's converting at the highest rate so we're not going to touch it.” And I was like, “Oh, okay, I'm going to tell that person who knows nothing about Facebook ad management that we're not touching it because it's converting. And even though we think it's hard to read, everybody else likes it because they're kicking.”

Doug: That's funny. Yeah. That's why I like multi-variant testing, it removes the emotional and the ego aspects of it. So who's one guest? I absolutely have to have my podcast.

Christina N.: Oh gosh. One? I mean, I know a lot of amazing people.

Doug: It could be a client or it could not be a client.

Christina N.: Okay, I'm thinking, I mean honestly my mind goes straight to a bunch of people that I'm in a mastermind with. So we talked about like those coaching programs that you're in and some of them it's like to learn from the coach, other ones, it's for the community. I'm in one with Pat Flynn and I have tons and tons of resources and recommendations for people in that group. So there's like, there's a blog or there are two bloggers who make a very successful living by blogging, one of them blogs about how to carry on a suitcase and be fashionable in travel. And the other one blogs about how to keep succulents alive.

Christina N.: So it's just like the most random things that you'd be like, “How do you make a full-time living off of that?” There are just really cool people with really cool businesses and they're doing really successful things. So I would say them because they have those businesses that after you hear about them, it's like, “What? That's really cool. Tell me more.”

Doug: Yeah, that's really neat. I mean, I just finished reading Christopher Lochhead's book niche down, and that's exactly what he talked about was like you said, “Niche down, niche down, niche down.” There's an audience there that you know, the ones to hear your message.

Christina N.: Yeah, I have to read that, I have to add that to my list. I love a good book recommendation.

Doug: He's a great writer. So where can people find you and learn more and connect with you and pick up some of the good stuff that you're sharing out there?

Christina N.: You can find me, I'm pretty active on social media, so on Instagram and Twitter it is @Christinaallday, you can find me on LinkedIn basically all of these platforms and I am also online at christinanicholson.com. And if your audience wants to have access to a free three-day media class that teaches them how to pitch the media to get publicity and turn it into profit, they can access that at pitchpublicityprofit.com.

Doug: Excellent. And Christina is also on YouTube, I just watched her new YouTube video that was released today, marketing strategies for authors to sell more books, which I really enjoyed, that was really well done.

Christina N.: Oh, thank you so much. Thank you for watching on YouTube. That's a new venture of mine, that's a new strategy that I started at the beginning of 2019. So that's my eighth video that I launched on the channel, so thank you for watching, Doug.

Doug: Well, I took a look because I saw that's one of the services that you offer on your website, I did have a chance before we got on air last week, I took a look through your site and it's very well laid out. So, listeners, I would suggest go take a look at the Media Mavens and more online, there's lots of information, there's some free content there as Christina shared and lots of examples. So I just wanna say thanks so much for being generous and sharing with our audience today.

Christina N.: Thank you so much for having me.

Doug: so there you go listeners. There are some things for you to take away and think about and stop just thinking, thinking that you're not ready because Christina says you're ready, so just go out there and do it. So thanks for tuning in. When you're done the episode, make sure you get your media pitched start knocking on doors and talking to people sharing your story. And while you're online don't forget to share this episode, leave us a review, and I look forward to serving you on our next episode.

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HOW TO GET MORE ROI FROM YOUR PR

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HOW TO GET MORE ROI FROM YOUR PR

To get more ROI from your PR stop thinking about promoting yourself and start thinking about just giving the media what they want and what they need.

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