Step into the fast-paced world of ‘Real Marketing Real Fast’ with me, Doug Morneau. Each episode is a power-packed journey through the twists and turns of digital marketing and website acquisition. Expect unfiltered insights, expert interviews, and a healthy dose of sarcasm. This isn’t just another marketing podcast; it’s your front-row seat to the strategies shaping the digital landscape.


Tips on how to build a successful online course for your business by Jane Deuber

  • We were always looking for how do we take away what I call the entrepreneurial angst.
  • Identify your realms of impact. When a client works with you for say, three to six months, what are the areas of their life that are impacted?
  • With an assessment, the numbers don’t lie, that if I’m scoring myself in a two or a three or a four in a certain area of a business that’s identified as important, it’s a truth-teller for them.
  • If you hang your shingle out as an expert, as a coach, speaker, trainer, author, you have an obligation to learn how to inspire change in your clients.
  • I’m a big proponent against the pilot launch of a course. We do something called the inner circle…

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If you hang your shingle out as an expert, as a coach, speaker, trainer, author, you have an obligation to learn how to inspire change in your clients.

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Doug Morneau: Well, welcome back listeners to another episode of Real Marketing Real Fast. Today I’ve got joining me in studio, Jane Deuber. Now I met Jane at the New Media Summit. And if you’ve met Jane, you know that she is high-energy, high-impact. She is a speaker and author and an intuitive business strategist. It didn’t take very long after meeting her and we found ourselves out for dinner with her and her husband, doing what she probably does best, and that is networking, expanding her network, and connecting with people.

Jane is a seven-time successful entrepreneur. So you’ll want to tune in because anybody who can hit it out of the park seven times has probably got some stuff that we could all learn from. She’s passionate about helping business owners build high-leverage, massively profitable businesses that impact meaningful change and provide the freedom and lifestyle that you and I desire. While armed with a master’s degree in international business, it’s really Jane’s 30 years in her entrepreneurial trenches that give her unique and grounded perspective on her business success. Her journey is filled with stories of risk-taking, triumph, failure, and reinvention, enabling her to start and grow seven businesses successfully. They’ve sold three and now she operates from her home in Pebble Beach, California. Welcome to the Real Marketing Real Fast Podcast.

Jane Deuber: Thank you. Thank you, Doug. I’m thrilled to be here and so glad we had a chance to meet live and in person before we do this.

Doug Morneau: There we go. We start with a … We’re doing it in reverse. We start with a face-to-face meeting, and then we take it online and get digital, instead of the other way around.

Jane Deuber: I love it. That’s the way I’d always love it.

Doug Morneau: But I mean, one of the things we talked about and that is in digital, and that is identifying the right customers, the right message, and finding the best way to convert them. Do you want to just share a little bit about your business, your business background and how you got to where you are?

Jane Deuber: Yeah, absolutely. I would say you hear this phrase passed around, the serial entrepreneur, but I think I really took it seriously. I came out of an entrepreneurial family. Came out of my graduate degree in business and just knew I was unemployable. I knew that I always wanted to have my own business. Much of … Well, now it’s been 30, going on 31 years. I actually went into business with my husband before we got married, believe it or not.

Doug Morneau: Wow. Good for you.

Jane Deuber: I know. If you think about it, having had the seven businesses, Mario and I did that together. So, probably even more than the business success that we’ve had, I’m thrilled we’re still married and happy and just love our lives. Yeah. It’s, for me, the common thread amongst all the businesses, they’ve all been in a personal development realm. And they’re always … Every single business, we were always looking for how do we take away what I call the entrepreneurial angst? It’s frustration. The entrepreneurial life, as you know, it’s not for the faint of heart. Every single business we had was providing some sort of solution, a way of looking at business, a way of conducting business that we felt was more innovative and allowed people to succeed more quickly. The game we play, Doug, is how quickly can we get to the million mark? And-

Doug Morneau: That’s a great game.

Jane Deuber: It is. And it’s true. You make different decisions along the way when you’re on the way to a million-dollar business than when you’re on the way to … Trying to get to that 100,000 mark, or the multi-hundred thousand. I learned early on from my dad, if you’re gonna play, you might as well play full out. That’s the common thread of all the businesses, is how do we do that ourselves, and then how do we turn around and help other entrepreneurs do the same?

Doug Morneau: With that in mind, this is gonna take up that comment in terms of building a six-figure business versus seven-figure. I remember when I was starting in business, people said that’s not a big jump, it’s just adding an extra zero. And, to some, that might sound smug or arrogant. But I tend to agree with you. Do you want to just share a little bit? What is the major difference between going from six figures to seven figures? We meet lots of people that are consultants and business coaches and people that are selling products and they’re teaching people how to get to six figures. And that’s fine. That’s fine for me if that was a pathway to get to seven.

Jane Deuber: Yeah. For me, the biggest difference can be summed up in one word. It’s that simple. And it’s leverage. Because, typically, at the hundred thousand dollar level … And there’s no judgment. I have a lot of clients that we work with personally who really don’t want a million-dollar business, right? But the mindset still can be present. A lot of times for people who said they don’t want the seven-figure business, it’s because somewhere in their psyche, Doug, they’re believing that their quality of life will suffer, that they’ll work their self to death and the relationships will go to hell in a handbasket. I would say, first of all, just check your mindset around the six-figure business versus the seven-figure.

Then, I would say, the other thing, the thing that is the tipping scale to be able to get to that level and still have quality of life, and still keep your relationships intact and your health, is really making sure that when you’re building your business, you’re really structuring it to have leverage. And we can go into more about what I believe leverage is, because for me, it’s my favourite thing. I think I was interviewed on another … It was Rod’s podcast. And he said, “I think you should make leverage your middle name.” Because I’m such a proponent of it. I really, really, truly believe in it.

Doug Morneau: Well, it’s funny. ‘Cause I heard Matthew Kimberley speak at an event. And he talked about building a seven-figure, eight-figure business. And you can see some people that it sounds almost offensive. But I think what I took away from his presentation was, for people that are listening today saying, “Oh, I don’t need to do that,” is it gives you more choices. Stuff happens in our life, and stuff happens in the life of our families and friends. And sometimes you just need to be there. And sometimes it’s physically being there, or sometimes it’s helping someone that’s in a tough situation. And how tough would it be to not be able to help or not be able to be there because you haven’t built your business to the point that you can pick up and go?

Jane Deuber: Absolutely. In fact, I mean, I’ll share. Because I’m an open book here. I will share that I was able to take three weeks off of my business and I went to be with my family. A family member passed. And it was an opportunity for me to really be present. And I can go over … It’s really three areas you want to really focus on leverage in your business. And because I had focused on the third area, which is building a team, a rock star team, I was able to not even … I didn’t look at my texts. I didn’t answer emails. I just checked in with them a couple times a week. Yeah. That’s the lifestyle we all want. You may not want the big house or the car, but freedom has to be born out of leverage if you think about it.

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Doug Morneau: Yeah.

Jane Deuber: Yeah.

Doug Morneau: In terms of operating seven businesses, what businesses are you currently running?

Jane Deuber: The three … We’re operating three out of our home here in Pebble Beach. And we do it with a virtual team. And the one … It’s actually … They very much mirror these three strategies for leverage. So if people are taking notes on the podcast, if you’re looking, if you’re curious and say, “Okay, first of all, what is leverage?” And in my world, it’s creating a business that gives you the greatest return for the least amount of effort. It’s just how to be smart so that you have the revenues flowing in and it’s as streamlined as it possibly can be. The three areas … The first area that you want to leverage is in your delivery, the delivery of your expertise. Because if you’re the only one delivering your expertise, you’re screwed. Because you can’t take the lid off the income, because there’s only so much of you to go around.

Doug Morneau: Right. Yup.

Jane Deuber; Yeah. That first company that we have builds online academies, e-learning platforms, for people to take their content that they’ve been delivering live or maybe they have a book. Maybe they’ve been coaching. And we help them create really, really well-designed courses that we can then deliver through our e-learning platform. That’s one of the businesses, is an e-learning platform.

Doug Morneau; And what’s your next business?

Jane Deuber: Yeah. The second one is the next step. Once you’ve had an opportunity to really streamline and create … In the e-learning, we go for a course that does as good as we possibly can of duplicating the experience of working with you personally. Once you’ve got that in place, then you go and you streamline the sales process. And it was interesting, ’cause I was having a conversation on another interview. And they were saying, “Well, wouldn’t you want to do the sales process first and then leverage the delivery?” But we’ve really found you can leverage the sales process by, in other words, automating the sales process to some degree. And if you don’t have a leveraged delivery, then what happens is you get the sales and you’re taxed with your ability to deliver. So we create this windfall of challenge where you’ve got the sales coming in but not a way to really rock it without killing yourself. That’s the sales process.

That’s the second company, Smart Biz Quiz. We help people streamline their sales using things like surveys and assessments. How to do that to really deliver a stellar sales experience or according to process that really is aligned with what the people need. And we can go a little deeper into this after I talk about the third one, because, Doug, I think this is really what’s aching right now in what I would call the personal development industry, is a sales process that’s intuitive, that’s personalized, that really is respectful of who’s on the other end of that email or training. The second businesses are Smart Biz Quiz which is all around the assessments and surveys.

Jane Deuber: Then the third is more of the consulting side of the business. It’s where we really work with people and create those longer-term strategies, build the infrastructure. It’s everything from an online course that we have to build the team and create the leverage. Or it’s, we even have a turn-key CEO program that we do, where we come in and actually do it all for you.

Those are the three businesses. And I love ’em all. I can’t choose. I know, people say, “How do you do three businesses?” And for me, it’s just I’m passionate about it and that’s what we do.

Doug Morneau: Well, you do it with a … What’d you say? A rockstar team and leverage.

Jane Deuber: I do. I do. Yeah. You gotta practice what you preach. That’s the one … Don’t you think it’s one of the great things about being in this industry, is that if you’re putting yourself as an expert, you’re really called to live what it is that you teach, right?

Doug Morneau: Absolutely. Yeah. That’s gotten me into trouble a few times. I’ve heard experts bragging about something, and I’m going, “You’re not doing that.” And anyhow, that’s a whole ‘nother story.

Jane Deuber: That’s a whole ‘nother podcast.

Doug Morneau: Yeah. A whole other podcast. Well, I mean, I love an opportunity to meet people, and the podcast gives me an opportunity to meet smart people and find out what they’re doing and share that with our audience. So yeah, you’re right. I mean, this is … I think Steve Osler asked one of the questions at his event. And the question was, “What’s one thing that even if you’re tired, gives you more energy when you’re done?” And I went, “Well, I guess speaking, teaching, and podcasting.” It doesn’t matter what time in the morning it is, I get up for an early morning interview for someone maybe in Europe, or wherever it is. It always gives me energy because I’m inspired by people’s knowledge, their experience, and always learn. I think, for me, it’s my own private online course, and I just happen to share it with everybody else.

Jane Deuber: Love it. Yeah, it’s true. Those are your three zones of genius. That’s cool that you’ve figured that out. Not a lot of people have.

Doug Morneau: Well, I’m still figuring it out. But I’ve got a spouse who often reminds me to pay attention to what I do and what people like in terms of what I do. Let’s talk about understanding your customer. I understand assessments a little bit in terms of personal assessments and personality-style assessments, the stuff that we would do when we are hiring staff. But how do you apply that to customers?

Jane Deuber: Yeah. It’s really interesting. I’ll say, first of all, I think you’ve got a safe space here for us to talk about the darker side of the industry right now. In many ways, I am the first optimist or such an optimist around life. One of my favorite client testimonials was working with James, stepping into the word yes. I’ll put that out there, that I’m a positive person. But I also think that, as an entrepreneur, you’ve got to be really honest about what’s happening in whatever niche you’re in in the personal development industry. And we’ve got plummeting open rinks, we’ve got opt-ins are harder to get than ever before. And it’s my opinion, it’s two-fold, really. Number one, it’s because the people on the other end of that marketing don’t feel seen, heard, or understood. And these are just basic human needs. We all want to be seen, heard, and understood, and respected. You can throw that in there, if you want. And I think for a long time in the industry, there was such a hype around the online marketing tools that people were creating that we forgot that there’s a human being on the other end of that.

Doug Morneau: Yeah. I totally agree.

Jane Deuber: Yeah. So we got into what I call the guru-centred marketing. And the guru-centred marketing is every single message out there is, “Click here and learn about me. Click here and get my groovy …” It’s all about me, me, me, the guru, right?

Doug Morneau: Yeah.

Jane Deuber: And it didn’t sit right with me. Just my nature is I want to know about the other people. So when we started looking at how we wanted to market differently, a number of years ago, what we really decided is how do we make this about the prospect? Duh. It’s not …

Doug Morneau: That’s a new idea. What does the customer want?

Jane Deuber; Yeah. It was just how do we make them feel seen? How do we deliver so much value in our exchange with them that that then begins to build the trust and sets us apart from the others? That was where, in our e-learning division, in our orientation, one of the things that really help our people be so successful online is, in our orientation, we’ve been doing this now for nine years with our e-learning platform, where the first thing that happens in any course is in the orientation, you take an online assessment. Then we have the student able to take that then again at the end. So in the e-learning world, it’s really cool because it benchmarks them to complete the course, so they’re always tracking their progress. But in the end, that client has a numerical representation of how much they’ve grown in the assessment.

Well, I’ll tell a little bit. It’s a scale of one to 10, and I’ll talk a little bit more about what our assessments do. But that was born out of that experience of people loving the assessments that were in the course. And, actually, one of our clients came to us, Michelle Scism in fact. She came and said, “My clients are loving this assessment. I’d really love to put it in the marketing.” And that’s where we made it a standalone tool, where any expert … We have everything from relationships coaches to dog trainers and dressage specialists and health and wellness and leadership training, and sales training, you name it. We’ve helped people create that. What we did is we then took that assessment that measured the student. Once they purchased, we pulled it out and we made it part of the marketing.

Doug Morneau: How does that work if I’m gonna use that? Let’s say, for example, I’m gonna take that and roll that into a health and wellness client project I’m working on. Where does that fit in our current sales and marketing strategy?

Jane Deuber: Yeah. It can go … I’ll share how it’s designed and then I’ll share with you where it can go in the sales process.

Doug Morneau: Sure.

Jane Deuber: What we do is we take an expert in any niche. Let’s say it’s health and wellness. And we have them identify what we call realms of impact. In other words, Doug, if you were a health and, say, a fitness coach, we would ask you, “When a client works with you for say, three to six months, what are the areas of their life and health that are impacted? Where are you impacting change?” And oftentimes it’s not only in their weight … How are they impacting change? It’s things like hydration and exercise and all these quote-unquote habits or best practices that you take a client from. A client comes in. They’re not drinking enough water. They’re not eating the right foods. They’re not exercising properly.

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All of these things we take, and then we build an assessment where a potential client can go in and then what we call categories, you’re asking them to rate on a scale of one to 10. The statement might be, “I have a health and fitness routine that I lean into or do three times a week without fail.” Well, on a scale of one to 10, how much does that describe you? One, not so much, I don’t even have the routine. I’m not regular. Or, 10, I’m a rock star. What this does, is by … I’ll take another one. A relationship, communication is really important to a relationship. We would design a statement or two … Let’s say it’s communication. It would be, “My significant other and I have a clear process for navigating disagreements.” Right? And then, on a scale of one to 10: one, not at all. We’re arguing all the time. 10, we have a great way of navigating these disagreements.

By doing this, you can imagine building out that assessment so in the sales process, where whether it’s on the front end, or whether it’s maybe two steps back in the sales process, the invitation is, “I’d really love to learn about you. I’m so happy to have you in my community.” Or, “I’m so thrilled that you got our XYZ blueprint. I’d love to learn more about you so that when we’re sharing information down the path, we’re making sure that we’re really giving you something that’s gonna serve you for where you are in your path.” Another invitation sometimes we’ll use is … “Sometimes, there are certain elements that are holding you back from having the XYZ that you want.” Put in the ultimate goal here. In my world, in the area of business growth, it would be finding out where your missing pieces are, what might be holding you back in business is one of the most important things you can do as an entrepreneur. I’ve designed an assessment for you to click here and find out. Where are the missing pieces that may be holding you back from the success that you want? That’s the invitation.

What we’re doing, then, is we’re giving that prospect the greatest gift they can have, which is the gift of awareness, right? In fact, Tony Robbins, if you look at his tenets of success, awareness is the first tenet of success. Saying, you can’t create change in anything in your life without first knowing exactly where you are today. And that’s what the assessments so that we build.

Doug Morneau: That’s really cool. I mean, I would, in the direct, analytical marketing sense, I would look at them as benchmarks. But I totally get what you’re saying. From a personal development standpoint, I’d do a deep dive in this once a year, where I take a couple weeks off over the holidays and look at, “How was my last year? What was my time sucks? How was I procrastinating? What am I missing? What tools should I be leveraging more?” And go through it all and look at it and look for the ones that are just glaring. Go, “Okay, I’m gonna take the lowest-hanging fruit and fix that one first.”

Jane Deuber: Love it. Yeah. That’s great. Sometimes the cool thing that happens with these assessments, if we do them by categories, typically we’ll do maybe four or five categories with just a couple statements in each one. Then, how we move this into the sales process is, once they take the assessment, we have a profile of who they are so we can deliver relevant value. But then we invite them into a conversation. And we actually teach clients how to structure that expiration session or some people call it a strategy session. But it’s the one-on-one enrollment conversation. How do you structure that to deliver the most value to the prospects so they come away more clear about those missing pieces? And then how do you structure it so you can seamlessly then show the client how it is you support them in those missing pieces.

It’s so much fun when we really get down to that. We can take someone who’s really uncomfortable with sales, who doesn’t feel that they’re good at all at sales. And we can put this tool in their hands because when they’re having the conversation with the prospect, the prospect is looking at the results of their assessment. You’re looking at it. And it’s so cool. In fact, in some ways, it would be very resonant with your style. ‘Cause you’re a giver. You lift up people. Sometimes for people who are all about serving, sometimes the sales process is hard for them, because typically, in the sales process, you’re looking to find what’s not working. Right? We’re gonna go to the pain point.

Doug Morneau: Yup.

Jane Deuber: And with the assessment, what’s so fun about that is, you begin the conversation by first looking to where have they scored themselves the highest. That conversation begins with a celebration saying, “Hey, I’m looking at the assessment, and Doug, you’re rocking these particular areas. Tell me why you scored yourself so high there.” We’re automatically starting affirming them, we’re learning more about their strengths. And that builds rapport. It builds trust. It makes them comfortable. And then, once you have more of that rapport, then you can say, “Okay, Doug, let’s look at some of the places that you scored yourself a bit lower. I see you scored yourself low here and here. Tell me about that.” That’s all you have to do. It’s crazy.

Doug Morneau: Sounds like my years of working with my personal coach. He says, “Okay. What are the major areas of your life that you want to succeed in?” And I’d write them out and he’d say, “Okay, on a scale of one to 10, how important are they?” And I would score them. And then, “On a scale of one to 10, how are you doing?” And one of them that I was struggling with was health and fitness. And he said, “You keep rating this high. But week after week, we get together. And you’re not making any progress. Can we dive a little bit deeper? You’re saying that this would affect your relationship with your kids. And you want to have grandkids you want to hang out with and blah blah blah blah.” And it just took a while. But, like you said, it was, “Here are the points where you’re doing well. And here’s an area that you’ve said is important to you, but your actions aren’t reflecting what you’ve said is important.

Jane Deuber: Exactly. It’s a perfect example of the power of the one to 10 scale. It really is. And that’s really where … ‘Cause people may be familiar with surveys. Ryan Levesque has a whole thing around the Ask surveys. And while I see surveys are valuable, and our tool can also build surveys for our clients, I think there’s nothing like the assessment. Because the challenge with the survey is when you ask open-ended questions in that sales process, number one, you can’t, because it’s open-ended and some people write books or hardly anything, you can’t take that data and then build a funnel around it. Because it’s open-ended questions.

The second thing around surveys where it falls short of being the tool we need is that when a person answers a question, they will tell you the story they’ve been telling themselves the whole time. In our world, what’s a challenge that you’re having in your business, and why do you think you’re having that challenge? Well, they’re gonna say the same thing they’ve been saying to themselves. Versus with an assessment, it’s a truth-teller. The numbers don’t lie, that if I’m scoring myself in a two or a three or a four in a certain area of a business that’s identified as important, it’s a truth-teller for them. But instead of me having to, as I said, stick the knife in and turn it, which is sometimes what people do in sales, instead of me having to do that, the numbers are there. And I call it a kinder, gentler way of navigating the sales process and getting to the outcome that you’re looking for.

Doug Morneau: Well, I never use a knife. Maybe a pointed stick. Or maybe a little bit of salt. But never a knife.

Jane Deuber: Oh, good. See, I knew you were one of the good guys.

Doug Morneau: Yeah. Yeah, there you go.

Jane Deuber: Yeah.

Doug Morneau: How do we tie this into some form of automation? I’m not familiar with your tool.

Jane Deuber: Yeah.

Doug Morneau: I’m not familiar with the idea of doing an assessment at the front end. For our listeners that are using probably a variety of CRM, anything from Outlook to Infusionsoft, how does this play with the rest of our technology?

Jane Deuber: Yeah. It’s smart technology. And what we do is we push that data, whatever CRM you’re using, we integrate with most of them. So we can integrate that data into the CRM and its tag. For example, let’s say that you have an assessment that has four different categories. Well, we can push that data into the CRM and you can then program it that if a person is low in, let’s say it’s a relationship coach again, let’s say they’re low in communication. Well, you can make it so that then that next free gift or a bit of information, you can even put ’em into a little drip campaign, where it is, “Hey, we noticed that when you took the assessment, communication is an area where there’s lots of room for improvement. So we’ve decided to share, over the next three days, some of our best tips on how to improve communication with your significant other.” Right?

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If you hang your shingle out as an expert, as a coach, speaker, trainer, author, you have an obligation to learn how to inspire change in your clients.

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Doug Morneau: Or, we noticed that procrastination is something you struggle with. That’s why I’m sending you an email every hour for the next three weeks.

Jane Deuber: I like that. Here, let me write that down. Yeah. Exactly. That’s where the communication is more respectful. Because it also can be for the offers. One of the challenges that I have in the industry right now is it’s a one size fits all. You’ve got thousands of people on your list, and you’re offering one product. How do you know that that’s the right product for that individual? You’re also able to, by identifying the total score, indicates that they’re a beginner, intermediate, or advanced. In our world, we typically design our follow-up campaigns based on beginning, intermediate, and advanced. Because you can typically really know what they’re gonna need. If a person’s brand-new in business, we want to send them something that’s more around the start-up stage. Versus if a person scores really high on their assessment, we know they’re a rock star. We’re gonna give them more sophisticated information. Make sense?

Doug Morneau: Well, and if you think about operating your business and selling out of integrity, and I’m not suggesting that people that go this route are doing this without integrity, but someone said, that I was interviewing on my podcast, and the comment he made is that it’s your responsibility for somebody to complete your course. If you’ve delivered, if you’ve set up an online course, you need to take responsibility for them. And I went away after the interview and I thought about that. I thought, “Man, that’s right.” If we really want to effect change and serve and help people. And at some point we’ve got in front of them and convinced them to put their credit card in and buy the program, we have to take some responsibility– Some, not all– some responsibility for them to actually complete the course. We’re not just in the business of selling gym memberships for $19 and I don’t care if they ever show up. I really want them to show up. And I want them to reach like you said, I want them to reach their goals. What would success look like for you in 30, 60, 90 days? How would I affect change?

Jane Deuber: You just hit a chord for me, which is … That’s the first business, obviously, the e-learning business. And I’m so in agreement with you, Doug. In fact, I can tell you, it was when we first started that company. And I was just beginning the whole e-learning platform. I was out there speaking on stages. I actually had someone who’s very well-known in the industry pull me aside afterwards, behind the stage, and said, “Jane, you gotta understand. We don’t care if they complete it. We just care that they buy it.” And I was like, “Oh my gosh.” I was like, “I can’t even believe you just said that.” Because I care for you, I’m never gonna say who said that. But I’m gonna repeat these.

In fact, I’m writing a book on this, actually. So maybe sometime I’ll come back. We’ll talk about the whole e-learning and curriculum design. But the name of the book is The Promise to Transform. And that is, if you hang your shingle out as an expert, as a coach, speaker, trainer, author, you have an obligation to learn how to inspire change in your clients. And there’s a whole psychology to that. There’s a whole … I call it the seven stages of the evolutionary journey. There’s psychology no matter what you’re …

We have one of our most successful online clients, she’s over a million in e-learning in just a few years. She’s a dressage specialist. She teaches people how to have a better relationship with their horse. But because she knocked it out of the park with her first course less than three years ago, she’s built an amazing business that has clients all over the world. And now she’s doing certification in different languages. But it was because she understood that she needed to get that first group through that beginning course that she launched long ago, to the point the second time … She did an intermediate. In our world, we do the beginning, intermediate, and advanced courses. So when she launched her intermediate course, she did over $200,000 in sales with two emails to the people who’d been through course number one. And this is why we have to care about completion. Because when people don’t complete what we create, then not only do they not buy the next thing, but there’s a negative association with your product and with you.

Doug Morneau: Yeah.

Jane Deuber: I know we’re off sales. But you really hit a core. Because I think these two things that we’re talking about … I know you’re about marketing, but it’s all related. The selling with integrity and delivering on your promise, those two things I think are the backbones of how we as an industry can lift ourselves up and regain the trust of consumers. How’s that?

Doug Morneau: Yeah. I mean, I’ve been to enough events and enough masterminds. And I, like you, I’m not gonna name names. But there’s a handful of well-known people that we, over the years, have committed to being masterminds with. And I can’t remember receiving an email from any of these people that weren’t self-serving. Not like … I didn’t open the email, go, “Oh, look. I got an email from so-and-so, and man, they made my day. They added value. They taught me something.” Their teaching was, if I buy this new course, or if I come to this new online webinar, then I’ll have made it. It’s like, have you guys never taken into consideration that we don’t, as consumers, for you listeners listening, that are emailing to your list, your people on your list don’t wake up in the morning thinking, “What can I open my email and buy?” So if that’s all you’re doing, you’re gonna wonder why your response rates are lower, why people are unsubscribing. And a new trend … I just published a book on email marketing. And here’s a shocking statistic for those who don’t know it. If you’re sending too much email to people and it’s not formatted right, or it’s not the right offer, even if they have double opted in, they are now more likely to report it as spam.

Jane Deuber: Wow.

Doug Morneau: If you’re ticking people off, they’re voting with the button, the spam button. And they may or may not know, that affects the deliverability of the email to your entire list. So think about next time before you push the send button. Is this good for my audience? And if it’s not good for my audience, you’re likely to get some spam complaints. And at some point, that’s gonna affect you getting your emails out to the people who actually like you.

Jane Deuber: Yeah. It’s … Amen. I love that. For me, to me, the greatest tool for increasing your open rate, for me it’s authenticity. It’s vulnerability. It’s letting your list into your life. This last three weeks, I lost a loved one. I shared that. I shared that I was taking some time off and that they wouldn’t hear from me for a while, and this is why. And we have to gain the trust by being real with them and really caring. I think you’re spot on. I can’t wait … Is that gonna be a book, Doug?

Doug Morneau: It is a book, actually. I just got the printed copies yesterday. It hit best-seller status and I just got my first Amazon order just showed up. The publisher sent me some copies as a thank you.

Jane Deuber: Well, yay. Send me the link. I’ll buy it after this and might be …

Doug Morneau: It’s new to me to be an author, but-

Jane Deuber: Congratulations.

Doug Morneau: But it does feel weird. Yeah. Thank you.

Jane Deuber: Oh, wonderful.

Doug Morneau: Yeah. I mean the world needs a lot fewer pictures of people on Instagram standing in front of somebody else’s Ferrari or on the back of the boat with a bunch of scantily-dressed women saying, “Hey, do what I do. You can have this.” Because most of them don’t have it either.

Jane Deuber: I know. It makes my skin crawl. Yeah. Yup.

Doug Morneau: Let’s move back onto a positive, upbeat conversation.

Jane Deuber: Yeah. But actually, it’s edgy. I think people need to hear this. I love it. I think when we blow the whistle on our own industry, it holds me and you up to a higher standard. Because if we’re pointing out something that’s not working in the industry, we better well be doing it right. Or at least doing our best to do it right, which is our philosophy.

Doug Morneau: Well, I saw a post on Instagram the other day. I mean, you opened the door a little bit for me. So I’ll step in. And it was … I follow a Christian-based health and wellness website. And they put a post up. And they said, “Contrary to popular belief, you can eat right and get into good shape without posting half-naked pictures on social media.” And I’m thinking, “Yes.” We don’t need … Like J.P. Sears said, “We need one less photo of a woman with a selfie going, ‘look at my necklace.'” He’s going, “It’s not the necklace. You’re just writing that because you know what you’re doing.”

Jane Deuber: I know.

Doug Morneau: It’s really disgusting. Quit doing that, you guys. Yeah. The industry is … Anyhow.

Jane Deuber: Oh, my goodness.

Doug Morneau: Moving forward, what are you most excited about? The next, say, six months?

Jane Deuber: I would say a couple things. Number one, it’s this book. I’ve been teaching people curriculum design and all that for many, many years. And I just realized I can’t help as many people as I want to, and I really want to change. I want to inspire this entire industry to deliver on their promise in their e-courses. I really want to… Actually, what it’s all about, Doug, is I want to help people stop putting out crappy courses. It’s really a big mission of mine. That’s important. It’ll be my third book. And yeah, I’m excited about that.

Then, to be quite frank, the company, the assessment company, is such a passion of mine, and there’s not enough of me to go around. Really, right now, I’m looking for individuals. We’ve had a couple conversations with people to bring in someone … In my world, seven businesses, the way we had seven businesses is when a revenue stream is doing well, we make it a division. And then when the division does well, we make it into a company. And then I look for someone to mentor to take over that company, who eventually can actually take ownership of it. Yeah. I’m just saying prayers and talking to great people who know other great people and looking to find the right person to grow that company with me.

Doug Morneau: That’s really cool.

Jane Deuber: Yeah. It’ll be fun.

Doug Morneau: I used to ask a question of, “What advice would you give yourself as a young entrepreneur?” But I found a better question that I ripped off from Tim Ferriss. And that is, “What bad advice do you hear in our industry today?”

Jane Deuber: Oh, interesting. Okay. I’ve heard him ask this. What bad advice?

Doug Morneau: Yeah. Talking about personal development or online or being an entrepreneur, there are so many people giving advice. I mean, we can always look back and say, “You know, if I had only known this when I was so old.” But right now, there are gurus or people that are perceived to be gurus or experts that are giving advice. And it’s clearly the wrong advice. Pick one

Jane Deuber: Okay. I got it. Totally got it. Yeah. I’m a big proponent against the pilot launch of a course. In fact, ours is the opposite. The pilot launch, for people who aren’t familiar with what that is, is there’s a lot of experts in the course creation space saying, “Do your pilot launch.” Where you charge very little, you beg people to get in the course, and then you ask for their advice. And I don’t know about you, but that does not create the kind of stature or the kind of respect that all of you earned because of your hard work and coming up with this expertise. Yeah. I think the pilot is a really, really bad choice for launching the course.

We do something called the inner circle, which is a small group of people that are highly invested. And they actually, in addition to the online program, they get private coaching with you. And we’ve proven this time and time again over the last three years, that it beats, hands down, the pilot launch. Typically people walk away with about a $30,000 revenue stream and amazing case studies, and happy clients. And then we do something called the tribal launch, which is more going out to a bigger group. But, yeah. Don’t do a pilot launch.

Doug Morneau: That’s cool. Go big. Just skip the small stuff. And just move right on to competing with Amazon head-on.

Jane Deuber: Well, maybe not that. But yeah.

Doug Morneau: Okay, something in-between.

Jane Deuber: Exactly. Exactly. Cool.

Doug Morneau: Here’s a tough question for you. This gets every one of my guests. And I’m hoping that, because you’re so bright, you’ll be able to answer this quickly.

Jane Deuber: Uh-oh. Yikes. Drum roll.

Doug Morneau: Here comes the lead-up to the big question: Who’s one guest I should have on my podcast?

Jane Deuber: Who’s a guest that you should have on your podcast? In the marketing realm?

Doug Morneau: In any realm. I mean, I’m an entrepreneur. And I just happen to like marketing. I’m one of those weird guys who get a kick out of selling stuff and doing sales and marketing.

Jane Deuber: Yeah. You know who I’d love to have you on, is I’m reading the book You’re a Badass now, by Jen Sincero.

Doug Morneau: Okay.

Jane Deuber: And she’s amazing. She really is great. She’s a phenomenal writer. Her work in this industry started off teaching writers how to write well. So she’s a great writer herself. But she’s also just got great stories. And she’s a badass entrepreneur. And I would imagine a lot of people in your listening field here could relate to that. Yeah. I’d love her.

Doug Morneau: Okay. Thanks very much. I appreciate that. I made a note. And I’ll reach out. And if I can’t find her I’m sure you’ve got her in a Rolodex someplace or I don’t know. Our listeners don’t know what a Rolodex is. But we won’t go there either.

Jane Deuber: Yeah. You’re a riot.

Doug Morneau: What’s the best way for people to get in touch with you?

Jane Deuber: Well, here’s the thing. I would love to … Can I give them also an opportunity to experience one of the assessments? Are you cool with that?

Doug Morneau: Feel free.

Jane Deuber: Yeah. If you want to experience one of our assessments, you can go to Rockyourbizquiz.com. Rockyourbizquiz.com and it takes just about four minutes, and the cool thing is not only do you get to see the tool in action itself, you’ll also get an opportunity to, in essence, find out what are those missing pieces. If you’re an entrepreneur, it doesn’t matter what business you’re in, this is basically measuring these five elements or five areas that you really need to be taking care of. That would be one. And also, just, I can give out the email then, in case they have any questions. If there was something that you had a question about on the interview, I’m happy to answer any questions for your tribe. It’s just [email protected]. [email protected].

Doug Morneau: What’s your favourite social media platform?

Jane Deuber: I’d say Facebook.

Doug Morneau: Okay. You’re a Facebook person. Okay. There you go. We will make sure that all this stuff is linked in our show notes. We find that the show notes are helpful. They’re great for SEO. They’re great for people who want to read and listen at the same time. And for people who didn’t take notes, they can go back and say, “Aha. Now I’ve got that information.”

Jane Deuber: Yeah. It’s wonderful. And Doug, I would really, I would love to get your book. I want to order that. And I’m happy to share that with my tribe. ‘Cause you’re such a great guy, not just because you do all of this, but my sense of you is that you really do care about the people on your list. And I want to reward that. And I want more people to know about you. So let me reciprocate that way.

Doug Morneau: Well, thanks so much. I’m not very good at that part. The receiving part. Thank you and we’ll move along. Thanks so much for your time. I really appreciate it. We had a great time meeting. I had a great conversation. Obviously, we’re 42 minutes into the podcast. We could probably talk for hours on this topic. I think we both share a lot of the same common beliefs and desire to help people. I want to be respectful of your time. Thank you, Jane.

Jane Deuber: You’re welcome, Doug. Thanks for having me. Take care.

Doug Morneau: Thanks, listeners, for tuning in to another episode of Real Marketing Real Fast. If you’re not subscribed, subscribe to us on iTunes. If you like what you heard, leave us a comment on our blog or leave us a rating on iTunes. It would be much appreciated. And I look forward to our next episode and seeing how we can serve you best.

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If you hang your shingle out as an expert, as a coach, speaker, trainer, author, you have an obligation to learn how to inspire change in your clients.

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"Innovation isn't just thinking outside the box; it's about setting the box on fire and building something extraordinary from the ashes."

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